Unknown Gun w/ Remington Lock

[mgrgrt]

I wonder if someone could tell me anything about this rifle (who made it , approx. age).  There is a signature on the barrel (First name begins with a fancy "W" -and has a "t" in it at or near the end (approximately 7 letters, Last name clearly begins with a "L" - maybe about 4 letters).  Signature is in script.  The rifle is .32 cal (rifled) with a 34" barrel.  The lock is manufactured by Remington.

Parts are original, however, my dad had the stock repaired by a gunsmith at a black powder shop near Midland Mi.  about 20 years ago.  The stock was broken near the lock and a piece was fitted into the stock near the tang.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgrgt/4581850817/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgrgt/4581850681/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgrgt/4581852485/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgrgt/4581851799/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgrgt/4582481278/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgrgt/4582482814/

[Tanselman]

Your half-stocked rifle is probably an 1850s or later New York gun, based on its guard style, stock architecture, and the single trigger that appears to be brass.  Shelby Gallien

[nord]

Go with Shelby on this one. Likely the barrel is also Remington and will be so stamped on the underside. Walnut stock and commercial hardware place the gun more probably into the Civil War era as does the rear sight.

Maker? You might do well to make a pencil rubbing over the signature area. Even with a good signature it must be remembered that there were untold numbers of makers present at that time.

Shelby called correctly (or as correctly as possible) on the area of manufacture. Generally the architecture suggests a Mohawk Valley rifle. Areas suspect would be east to Albany, west to Syracuse or a bit beyond, north into the Adirondacks, and south to the mid sections of the Finger Lakes.

All this neat and concise information is totally negated by the fact that your rifle was made in an era where travel and migration were easy and common.  Same with the various components on the piece. While the gun certainly suggests NY, it could just as easily have been made in Michigan or westward from there.

[T*O*F]

(First name begins with a fancy "W" -and has a "t" in it at or near the end (approximately 7 letters, Last name clearly begins with a "L" - maybe about 4 letters).

The signature is  Wm. A Lxxx.  Last name looks like Lang or Long but can't determine because of picture quality.  An oblique close-up might reveal more.

[Tanselman]

Geeeze Nord, I have to question your last comment regarding this rifle when you wrote: "it could have just as  easily been made in Michigan or westward from there." I think the single brass trigger is a very localized detail, not used in Michigan or other midwest states, and is a good indicator of a New York origin for this rifle.  Shelby Gallien

[Dale Campbell]

I think that was his point.  If you look at the N. Potter from Michigan in the museum, it's a dead ringer for this one.  The cap box points the other way on this one, and it has a brass single trigger rather than double set.

[nord]

Shelby -

We have a way of misunderstanding each other don't we?

From all indications a NY (Mohawk Valley) gun. All I meant was that by 1860 it had become so easy to travel that a NY maker could as easily have made that gun in the west as in Utica, NY.

Unless the bio of this maker becomes known I'd bet a NY gun. Then again, I'd have bet the same with the Potter. Everything pointed to NY until we discovered that Potter had jumped ship and was in Michigan.

Best,

B

[Tanselman]

Nord, I think your response was/is potentially misleading to a casual reader. Let me pull it down here and explain:

"All this neat and concise information is totally negated by the fact that your rifle was made in an era where travel and migration were easy and common.  Same with the various components on the piece. While the gun certainly suggests NY, it could just as easily have been made in Michigan or westward from there."

It is not true that this gun "could have just as easily been made in Michigan or westward from there." There may be shared details with guns such as the Potter rifle made further west, as there are with most regions' guns and gunmakers in later years due to natural migration, but the single trigger made of brass is a major identifying detail of NY guns, not Michigan or midwest guns. It is highly likely that this particular rifle was made in New York, highly unlikely it was made in Michigan or further west.

A similar gun without the single brass trigger could have been "made in Michigan or westward," but that was not stated in the posting.  Rather, that detail for establishing the gun's place of origin (second only to the hard-to-read signature) was ignored, and a generalization given that implied this particular gun could just as easily have been made in Michigan as in New York. That, I believe, is inaccurate, and should be rebuted due to the educational objective of this site. The single brass trigger tells us a lot about the gun's origin, both where it was most likely made, and where it was probably not made. Perhaps I have misunderstood the intent of the statement, but if so, I believe others will do the same, i.e. read it with the same meaning as I did, so a clarification is still needed.  Shelby Gallien      

[nord]

Point made and I guess I can't disagree given that the maker seems to remain anonymous.

The gun fairly shouts Mohawk Valley and environs. Caliber hints that it wasn't made for use in the Adirondacks.

Given what we know I'm comfortable. Given that the maker 's name hasn't been pinned to anyone that we're yet aware of I'd as soon leave the door open a crack as we get a surprise from time to time.

B