Author Topic: This lock OK?  (Read 7369 times)

Offline flehto

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This lock OK?
« on: May 18, 2010, 02:38:53 PM »
Have a Chambers' Late Ketland on hand and need advice on whether this lock would be OK on a Bucks County LR? To support this idea there's Weiker's BC LR on p.260 of RCA, vol. 1  and the lock has a roller on the frizzen spring w/ a similar plate outline. Shuler's BC LR on p. 270 of RCA, vol. 1 has a similar plate outline but no roller on the frizzen spring. Have previously used Chambers' Golden Age and Deluxe Siler on my BC LRs and the plate outline of these 2 locks is possibly similar to only  the Verner BC LR on p.264 of RCA, vol. 1. The Late Ketland sure would lend itself to a very slim BC LR but seeing my only reference is RCA, vol. 1, does anyone have addt'l BC references or opinions that could help me determine whether to use the Late Ketland? Any info would be highly appreciated...Fred

Offline rich pierce

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2010, 03:43:16 PM »
The hickory stocked Bucks County rifle that came up for auction a few years ago had a similar lock.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 05:40:16 PM by richpierce »
Andover, Vermont

northmn

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2010, 03:53:58 PM »
I do not know how much of a cross over there was, but most of the Pennsylvania makers were German and tended to use German styled locks.  I guess there was quite a bit of importing from England.  Were I to build an early Buck's County I likely would go for a Germanic lock.

DP

Offline b bogart

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2010, 04:22:09 PM »
I second what Rich said. i've got a late Ketland just for that purpose. Please don't say it's not proper!

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2010, 04:38:20 PM »
I would think the later rifles could have an English lock. Most of the early rifles from Bucks I have seen have a Germanic. A Shuler I have seen has a Germanic styled lock that could be a dead ringer for a Siler. (or maybe a skillfully aged reconversion)

Tom
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Offline flehto

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2010, 06:23:09 PM »
The above pictured BC has an English lock and so does the Weiker BC in RCA 1 and the plate outlines are similar to the Late Ketland. The Shuler in RCA1 has a plate outline similar to the Late Ketland but the pan is faceted in good German fashion. It's a fact that I don't really know what's early or late asre BC LRs so where does the Shuler and Weiker BCs in RCA 1 fall timewise?  Late 1790s or early 1800s? A possibility is that I might have to buy Chambers' Gunmakers lock and shape the plate to suit.? Also is it true that recognizable  BC LRs were only made for 20-25 yrs? Again....any info would be greatly appreciated as my knowledge of these LRs is woefully lacking....Fred

Offline rich pierce

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2010, 07:21:17 PM »
Dang, who would know more than you?  You build such beauties!  I think most Bucks County rofles are later than we like to think.  1790's would be the very earliest, and 1810 the heyday, I'm guessing.  By the buttstock on the hickory BC rifle, I am thinking 1815-1825.  There's writing on the lockplate but I can't make it out.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 07:22:19 PM by richpierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2010, 07:23:52 PM »
Roller frizzen, there, Rich. That looks like an American made lock, tho' maybe the gun was converted back to flint. Frizzen and cockscrew are virtually new. Cock looks like an English pattern. Frizzen looks kinda new, too.

I love the lines of that rifle.

Tom
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 07:26:17 PM by Acer Saccharum »
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Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2010, 07:34:16 PM »
Acer, are you sure that is a roller on the frizzen?  I get the impression that rounded feature is part of the frizzen foot, rather than the roller with axle,as it appears to be on the same plane as the rest of the foot behind it.  And it doesn't seem symetrical (round). 

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2010, 07:39:52 PM »
Rich, do you have anymore photos of that rifle, or directions to where I can find some?  Next build will probably be a Bucks county .40cal.   

Offline rich pierce

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2010, 07:49:40 PM »
I think it's a roller and I agree the lock may have had some work and may be a reconversion, so all we have to go on is the shape and size of the lock.  Those are the only pictures I have from an auction catalogue.  Regret not buying the piece, but I had no money at the time.  I think it's a smoothbore.  I have some hickory about dried and ready to go, a .36 Ed Rayl B weight barrel and furniture from Reeves.  Need to get a Late Ketland and some time and get to it.  It will be my squirrel/varmint rifle, and not a light one.
Andover, Vermont

Offline flehto

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2010, 11:55:59 PM »
Thanks to all for your info. Just ordered a couple of John Shuler TGs {#44} from Goehring and will probably use the Late Ketland along w/ the Rice York, "B" weight x 46"  bbl. Hedgecock offers a very nice sand cast BP which was used on the last  few BCs. Rich...thanks for posting the pics...seeing I'm enamoured w/ BC LRs, any time I can see them, it's a treat and good luck w/ your BC LR. Have to say that you PA guys really have an upper hand w/ all the events, viewing  originals  and having references unavailable to us Midwesterners. Thanks again....Fred

Offline rf50cal

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2010, 03:23:58 AM »
I have two Bucks Co. rifles by Ron Luckenbill with Late Ketland locks. He seems to have great knowledge of these rifles so I'm sure the locks are appropriate.

Fred, the rifle you had for sale here was a real beauty. You should send the photos of that rifle to the Contemporary Makers Blog so we could all see them again.
Roger Fleisher

Offline jim meili

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2010, 08:06:29 PM »
Fred, the late Ketland not only looks right but if the gun will be shot alot it is a good choice. I have one on a Bucks Cty style smooth gun and I shoot it alot at clay birds. It just seems to go on and on and on shooting with no hangups.
Good luck...Jim

Offline rsells

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2010, 09:18:10 PM »
Rich,
Was the original barrel an oct/round?  I can't determine from the photographs.  Great looking rifle.  Thanks for the great info.
                                                                          Roger Sells

Offline rich pierce

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Re: This lock OK?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2010, 10:08:46 PM »
Roger, that hickory stocked Bucks county gun pictured above was an oct to round and it is a lot like gun #58 in RCA volume 1 by Shumway, but more angular around the lock panel transition at the front.  I guess it may have been from the same shop- guard is different but buttplate is "money" I think.

Sure wish I'd a had the $ when that one came up for sale.  i know it had work done and may not have ever been flint- but the architecture really flows.
Andover, Vermont