Author Topic: Getting a Lock to Work  (Read 6657 times)

northmn

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Getting a Lock to Work
« on: May 17, 2010, 11:49:21 PM »
Need to blow off a little steam again.  Used the lock last fall no problem putting the parts back in for final finish and the *** detent in the lock will not work.  It goes to half cock using the DST's. Its an L&R small Manton for the 25 and the parts list uses the same fly for all locks.  The thing stays under the sear and does not register after cocking.  Tried it both ways and it still does not click into place.  Tried 3 of them as I ahd spares (they get lost easily)   Well now back to the shop and will try to keep my patience as this is rather frustrating, and is reminding me of words my father used when he worked on his farm machinery.

DP

California Kid

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2010, 12:19:31 AM »
Make sure the fly isn't upsidedown

northmn

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2010, 02:41:55 AM »
there is only two ways to put the thing in, I ahve tried both.  Looking at it, I do not see how it can work.
They work in my other L&R locks but they are a different model.

DP

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2010, 02:50:14 AM »
Would there be too much oil or grease in the lock and the fly is hanging up and not droping as the sear slides by?  It happens to me every once in ahwhile.    Gary

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2010, 04:24:29 AM »
Ok, now tell me: when you pull the cock all the way back to full cock, the fly should LEAP toward the mainspring. If it does not jump foward, but stays under the sear, then your fly is too long.

If this is the case, let me know, and then I will write more.

Regards, Tom
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 04:24:48 AM by Acer Saccharum »
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

coutios

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2010, 05:10:58 AM »
  I'm holding a Manton in my hand that was made about 15 years ago....Good lock.  Tom is correct the fly should snap back with a click.. It should protrude past the tumbler about .015/.020, just enough to prevent the sear from falling into 1/2 cock. Does it work outside of the gun? If so it there may be an issue during assembly.  Remove the sear and main springs the cock should flop to and fro freely and the sear should also move free no binds .. if not find the bind and fix it. If it worked before it will work again....

Sorry for the long post
Regards
Dave

northmn

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2010, 12:54:13 PM »
It appears to have needed a bit of polishing as it was binding right where the fly contacted the plate.  All the other L&R locks had flys that jumped like Tom described them.  This one did not.  The fly is stamped and has that rounded stamped finish and the plate is cast and a little uneven.  This is has been one of those time consuming irritations that occur when time is limited due to spring projects.  May still need a little more polishing and honing.  Glad I bought the diamond needle files a while back.  I shoot left handed and this is about the only small left handed lock made.  I prefer to build left handed rather than shoot a right handed gun lefty.  Guns would be more sellable if they were right sided.  Needed to vent a little frustration.

DP   

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2010, 03:00:40 PM »
It sounds like you found your culprit. And yes, the littlest thing can bring the whole project to a grinding halt.

I had a corn develop on my pinkie toe, and I could not believe the pain, so I stopped walking. Then I got really out of shape, and THEN I felt old and fat, and THEN I thought, $#@*, this little stinkin toe is going to bring down the whole animal. So I fixed it, and I'm back up to speed.   Too much information? ;D ;D ;D ;D

And this little fly can cause you to get fed up and *#)*^~ off. I think they are called flies for many reasons.  :D

Tom

Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2010, 09:45:48 PM »
Well just a true tale (or tail) in the stuck fly category!!  No not what your thinkin!

Yrs ago I stuck together a Jaeger .54 with a Davis flinter... Actually came together pretty decent fired 50 or so shots sighting her in etc.  Had a shot at a deer from my tree stand first squeeze the hammer caught up in half bent.  Deer stood there,
pulled her back again and she hung up in half bent the 2nd time and the deer took off.  When I arrived back at the truck I decided to unload thru the muzzle towards a stump, reprimed squeezed the trigger and she fired!!!!!!! ::)  In other words all those shots fired no problem until I leveled her off at a deer.  That lock went back to Davis and was returned to me in working order ever since.  They advised me that there was a burr inside the bridle which hung up the fly (sometimes)  I can't recall if I ever looked for a burr or anything else under the bridle...  In any case it shows that little thingees can mean a lot.

I really didn't need that deer anyhow.   ;)

jwh1947

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2010, 04:00:29 AM »
I would also consider checking the tightness of the frizzen spring on that type/brand of lock.  Many are way too stiff and, if I am not mistaken there as a hump that can be filed down easily to lighten it.  We automatically polish and stone the bearing faces and critical parts on the inside and make sure there is no unnecessary touching/friction.  Use correct flint and there should be no problem with the product.

chapmans

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2010, 05:01:13 AM »
I just finished a gun with the same lock except perc and right handed, the lock worked fine until I took it apart, when I put it back together in the gun it would catch on the 1/2 cock notch, I took the lock apart and proceeded to lose the fly (if you could see my workbench you would know why) anyway I ordered 2 of them from L&R  when I put the new one in it worked fine, I'm pretty sure I had it in backwards. I don't like the fly with the hole in it, I would prefer a hole in the tumbler instead with a tit on the fly so you couldn't put in in backwards.
  Steve Chapman

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2010, 05:22:46 PM »
Need to blow off a little steam again.  Used the lock last fall no problem putting the parts back in for final finish and the *** detent in the lock will not work.  It goes to half cock using the DST's. Its an L&R small Manton for the 25 and the parts list uses the same fly for all locks.  The thing stays under the sear and does not register after cocking.  Tried it both ways and it still does not click into place.  Tried 3 of them as I ahd spares (they get lost easily)   Well now back to the shop and will try to keep my patience as this is rather frustrating, and is reminding me of words my father used when he worked on his farm machinery.

DP

I am working on a L&R 1700 right now that needs a little fly work. So far I have welded up and redrilled the tumbler hole in the plate, cut 1/8" off the stop on the cock (it stopped far too soon) and rearched the mainspring.
Make sure the sear is not binding, the sear spring is snappy and stone any burrs from the sear contact areas and the contact areas of the fly. Some sears are relieved behind the sear nose for the fly check this too.
If all else fails I make parts that work.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2010, 06:18:18 PM »
I ordered 2 of them from L&R  when I put the new one in it worked fine, I'm pretty sure I had it in backwards. I don't like the fly with the hole in it, I would prefer a hole in the tumbler instead with a tit on the fly so you couldn't put in in backwards.
  Steve Chapman
The L&R Durs Egg has the same type fly. When you disassemble one of these critters for the first time make a sketch of how the fly is installed, then wrap a piece of masking tape around the little bugger before it abandons the area, because they will. I'm guessing that a fly is one of the most often ordered replacement parts, and I don;t think it is because they wear out.

northmn

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Re: Getting a Lock to Work
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2010, 02:41:51 AM »
After this little experience I have to order a couple more.  It is a poor design compared to the Siler system but it does work. I almost made one but it would have been a bit of work for a cheap part.  I keep a magnetic tray under the lock now while disassembling (I could now do it in the dark after this experience).  The fly would not index when I used a scribe to try to get it to move even without the spring.  I took a diamond knife hone and worked down the plate as it seemed like there was a high spot in the plate casting.  I will point out that the little lock works very very well otherwise.  I usd the DST because it is more or less correct for a poor boy and it is a squirel rifle designed for fine shooting.  Mostly I prefer the simplicity of single triggers.  This lock would have worked fine with a single trigger.  However to get a reasonable trigger pull may also require a little bit of disassembly.

DP