Tommahawk vs Belt Axe

[Pete G.]

I justified the purchase of a tommahawk on the basis of need. I needed one because I just didn't have one. Consequently, ended up with a gen-oowine Indian tommahawk. I know it is, because it has "India" stamped right on the head. Once the handle was striped and a few inlays were put in, it doesn't look too bad, but when carried in my sheath on my belt it is a little too large, long handle esspecially so.
The few displays I have seen of historical items always suprises me with how small a lot of original items really were. I don't do the trekking thing and am not likely to, but still it seems that I am now looking for another hawk/axe of better proportion. Although some of the hand forgred reproductions look good, I don't know if I can really justify the cost for a seldom used item. I've noticed a smaller hawk carried by some suttlers, usually labeled as a "Mouse Hawk". I'm not exactly crazy about the style, buy the price is right, it can be modified to look period, and again, it is not an often used item.

My questions are
1 Doesn't anyone have any experience with these things?
2 Is there an alternative in the $25 to $35 price range?

[BrownBear]

I'm right there with you.  I built a "standard" hawk and quickly started leaving the thing at home rather than carrying it on hunts as intended.  Just too darned cumbersome in the woods, no matter how I carried it.  Hats off to our forebears who put up with the blinking things in the woods! 

For the jobs I do, a small hawk is perfect.  I don't really care about historical correctness compared to practical usefulness.  They have a nice selection of options in your price range at The Gun Works.  I've got their 12 oz hammerhead mouse ($23.50), but have kinda got my eye on the 6 1/2 oz squaw hawk ($35).  I'm yet to use the hammer head on mine, and lighter is definitely better when you're trying to keep your pants from being dragged down to your knees.  I might even put the squaw version on the back of a bag.

[rich pierce]

I think the variety of tomahawks and belt axes used originally reflects specialized use.

A spike tomahawk or light pipe tomahawk etc would be good for hand to hand combat but next to useless around camp for me.  The lighter the better for hand to hand- speed is the key there, and many designed for war had exceedingly light handles and heads.

The squaw axe with no poll is a good all-rounder as long as you don't try to pound anything with it.  Make kindling, chop a breastbone on larger game, chop heads off fish or game and save your knife, smack a downed deer upside the head, etc.   Here's mine- it is an original.  Blade is 5.5" long, poll to edge.  With a shortish handle this is fine to carry for me.



The polled belt ax is heavy unless it's one of those cute little bag axes. I like the little ones; they are cute, but not good for much other than pounding tent pegs if they have a poll and cutting dead branches off a pine tree (which can be done faster by breaking them off).  The heavier polled belt ax is preferred around camp, less preferred on the hike.  But if in camp one of you has a full-sized axe (recommended) then I'd carry a squaw or trade axe for handiwork, useful for defense in a pinch, but not as good as a full blown spiked war tomahawk which is good for nothing else.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

This might be obvious to anyone with as much sense as God gave to a goose.  I nearly lost the little finger on my left hand from my tomahawk which I was carrying on my belt.  I don't have any tools that aren't razor sharp, and I was just in the process of catching an item out of the air, and brought my left hand upwards along my side - fast!  It healed but I must have lost most of a tendon, because over the next few years I developed a Dupeytran's Contracture that required surgery to correct.
So, if you like sharp, and what good is it if it is not, make a cover for the edge.

[Tim Crosby]

  Take a look at this head, about half way down the page, it is a very handy size.

 Tim C.


  http://www.longrifle.ws/forsale/default.asp?age=Contemporary&orderby=&categoryID=all&curpage=19

[Artificer]

Since it is so small, I always thought the Ft. Meigs belt axe would make a good hunting/trekking axe.  My hawks are all HB Forge since I bought them so many years ago to throw in primitive competition. 

http://www.redaviscompany.com/0286.html

Gus

[BrownBear]

That Ft Meigs is just what I'm looking for Artificer!  Thanks.  I'll probably hack the handle down into the 10-12" range for practicality.  I'm not building a log house, and frankly I don't need an axe for deer.  You can split the pelvis an rib cage with an average pocket knife when you know where the sutures lie.  Handy for elk and moose, though.

Why do I want an axe?  Serious survival, as opposed to "play" survival.  We often hunt far from quick rescue, and if things go wrong you could be waiting for days when the weather is worst.  You need to be self-sufficient.  Been there done that.  You have to build "thermal" shelters that are well insulated, which means cutting green boughs for walls and floors, or at least live alders for a framework to use other insulation.  Do-able with a knife, but better and faster with a small axe of some sort.

And right you are Taylor.  If it's not sharp, it's not an axe.  Cut yourself in the setting I just described, and even good weather is suddenly a survival situation.

[Artificer]

You are quite welcome, Brown Bear.   I've seen the handles cut down to that length and the folks liked them for a trekking/hunting axe. 

Someone once told me that if you put your elbow on a table and make a fist, then measure from the table to the top of your fist, that is your "natural" length for a throwing hawk.  That's how I cut my handles to length.  Worked well for me, at least, when I used to compete.   

Gus

[BrownBear]

That sounds like a useful statistic if I decide to try throwing. 

I just measured, and it's further proof that I must have orangutans in my family tree.  Would you believe I measure a little over 18"?  No wonder I can't keep the elbows in tall size shirts!

[Roger Fisher]

This might be obvious to anyone with as much sense as God gave to a goose.  I nearly lost the little finger on my left hand from my tomahawk which I was carrying on my belt.  I don't have any tools that aren't razor sharp, and I was just in the process of catching an item out of the air, and brought my left hand upwards along my side - fast!  It healed but I must have lost most of a tendon, because over the next few years I developed a Dupeytran's Contracture that required surgery to correct.
So, if you like sharp, and what good is it if it is not, make a cover for the edge.

Jeez, a sheath/cover for a hawk is a given! One such also causes less mayhem with the rifle or smoothy that you carry slung over your shoulder 

[BrownBear]

You'd think so, but I once had the "pleasure" of doing serious first aid on a guy who shoved a large knife under his belt for carry without the sheath.  Seemed to work okay till he crossed his ankles and flopped down cross-legged in front of the fire.  I'll let you imagine the details, but a large artery was involved.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

...and perhaps some "lubricant"!

[BrownBear]

Stone cold sober.  Just plain stupid, from what we could determine.  He'd seen it on Rambo.  (No, he wasn't a muzzleloader.)

[jasontn]

i have had a davis meigs hatchet, an hb forge hawk, cold steel trailhawk that i modified and this little hatchet from pioneer arms. of them all this one has been my favorite. it is small but a bit more robust than the meigs head. i made a carry sheath for it. i have also read a lot of good reviews on the davis mohawk axe, it somewhat resembles the original rich posted. heres mine
 

[mill creek trading]

Jasontn   Could you give the contact info for your small axe from Pioneer Arms. It looks like one that is sold by The Mold and Gun Shop?  Thanks Dennis

[jasontn]

heres thier webpage link, http://pioneerarms.com/bag_axe.html  i found them on the forum here a while back.

[BrownBear]

Are they still around?  I see their site hasn't been updated since 2007.

[Artificer]

Jasontn,

That is a NEAT little axe that would be correct for a longer time period.  The "hammer" portion would come in handy at times.  Thanks for adding that.

Gus

[jasontn]

as far as i know they are, my axe came from them in march. glad to have been able to add to this, i have always been fond of axes and knives. been thru a bunch of each till i found something i really liked.

[longhunter1757]

I carry the Virginia Pole Axe from R.E. Davis. It's sorta half way in weight between a hawk and a bag axe. The handle is a bit longer but it balances quite well. I tried the Ft. Meigs but the handle was too uncomfortable for me. It felt like I was holding a piece of lath.

http://www.redaviscompany.com/1017.html

Rich Baker

[J.D.]

A friend carries the Meigs axe, and IMHO, it's too light to do any real work. The light weight and excessively thin handle make it hard to even split kindling from small limbs.

IMHO, anyone whose life might depend on their axe might want something more robust, no matter how sharp it might be.

I have heard reports that the Indian made 'hawks are merely folded and welded along the edges. I have heard, second hand, that at least one  or two owners have ground through the weld along the bit after a few sharpenings, leaving a "cold shut" with no way to hold things together.

I have what appears to be a Pioneer Arms throwing 'hawk, bought a Dixons, though it is marked differently, and while I haven't used it for camp chores, it does throw well and it seems to be pretty durable. If their bag axe is as good as the thrower, it should be a good one.
God bless

[Buzzard]

Plus 1 for JD. I use my Meigs on the trap line and it works well for light work like clearing brush and roots but it ain't worth beans in a camp situation!

[Mike R]

It all depends on your expectations and needs.  A small hatchet is OK for alot of basic chores, like helping quarter big game or cutting small saplings and the like. For real wood cutting you need a proper axe. But how much real wood cutting are you going to do?  Most tomahawks will do OK for the same tasks as a small hatchet [belt axe] but many are designed more as weapons [or smoking devices in some cases].  Being an 'axe nut' [and alot of 'nut' with other things too] I own several different size and style chopping tools.  For coursing the woods the small light hatchet is jes' fine with me.  If I anticipate needing something bigger I have a small Hudson's Bay axe and an old Norland "Boys axe" that have done me great service for may years.  No doubt our ancestors carried similar axes on horseback into the wilds. The throwing hawks are great for just that--throwing.  Not so good for other chores, but in a pinch better than no axe...

[J.D.]

True Mike, but small is relative to medium and large. IMHO, that little meigs axe is only about 1/4" thick, and 4 1/4" long, weighing under a pound. IMHO, that's a mini axe suitable for  mini chores.

I like something with a little heft to it, though I don't want to carry a full size axe.

I guess its all relative. Ya' gotta give up something to get something. If exceptionally light weight is important, then yeah, the Meigs axe is good. If one really needs a usable belt axe to use in potential life threatening situations, IMHO, such a light weight axe will get you killed.

 God bless

[Dphariss]

I stumbled across this. Somewhat larger but its 1055 and is hardened and tempered.
http://www.ltspecpro.com/trailhawk.html

Dan