BUTTPLATE QUESTION

[LURCHWV@BJS]

   Getting ready to inlet, install the buttplate.   There's a for lack of a better word "tit" hanging off of the bottom of the tang.

            Do we remove this?  or Do we inlet it?


               


                              Rich

[flintriflesmith]

Although it is an odd shape right now, I believe it was/is intended to be the lug for penning the top extension of the butt piece in the stock. It does need to be reshaped.

[smallpatch]

Looks like a lug to secure the return of the buttplate to the stock.  I assume it's a Fowler buttplate??  Once it's inlet, you just drill through like a barrel pin, and it's attached.

[B Shipman]

In other words, if you want to use a screw, you can cut it off. If you want to cross pin it, keep it on.

[Lucky R A]

    Actually, the lug is correctly shaped.  The downward and forward angle of the lug allows it to pull the front extension of the butt plate forward firmly into the inlet.  The corresponding inlet into the wood must a reverse mirror image of the angle of the pinning lug.  If you just hog out a slot for the lug you lose the mechanical advantage of this feature.   

[LURCHWV@BJS]

   The BP is supposed to be a Jaeger Plate,  made by R.GOEHRING  #19  I am following Dixon's guideline to recreating a longrifle relizing this isn't a (long) rifle. I hadn't planned on pinning the BP in place and the lug seemed to be unnessesary work.  This first Build has been a great learning process for me and I can't imagine turning out a rifle a week.  I've been finding out the hard way, "Sometimes you have to backup to move forward"  I don't know who coined that phrase first but when I told my son this it rang true.  Just needed to know if I needed to leave it on or if it could be removed.


                      Rich

[Roger Fisher]

Actually pinning the beast can be simpler and cleaner than managing to set in a screw and have the screw nice and square with that tang.  A canted screw looks like H___!  Been there my friend.  So don't hesitate to pin the thingee (after you get her inletted nicely and clamped well prior to drilling for that pin.

BTW Read Ol Luckie's post again...      Don't rush and don't feel too poorly if you foul up here and there.  After all the ol apprentices worked 'under' a master's firm hand for years! 

[J. Talbert]

To expand on what Roger said about canted screws, I recently learned two tricks to help prevent that, from Mark Silver's Traditional Gunstocking video.

The first thing was the way he inlets the top, or heel of the buttplate.  Even though it's a simple squared off end, not a fancy finial type, he inlets it down into the wood, rather than simply sawing out a squared up notch to receive the heel.
The result of this is that when it comes time to mark the screw location and drill the hole, the wood is right up against the metal, making spotting the location more precise; less room for error.

The second trick is his use of a gimlet, rather than a hand drill, to actually drill the hole.  The simple gimlet allows one person to carefully check the location and angle of the hole as you go, to avoid the dreaded (at least for me it has been) canted screw.

Jeff

[bgf]

I would try the lug/pin approach, first, but a crooked screw hole shouldn't be that big a deal.  Just fill it up with glue and toothpicks or wood slivers and try again.  It won't show, and it will hold fine.  I have "a friend" that drills crooked holes frequently:).

[Jerry V Lape]

Listen to Roger!  On my first rifle I drilled, screwed, redrilled to put in a dowel plugs about 4 times before I got that buttplate return screw in plumb.  It ain't as easy as you might think when there are no flat square surfaces to set up the butt in a drill press.  I had to re-level my drill table, make fixtures to hold level the top line of the buttplate/stock cut, mark the vertical center line of the buttstock and get it secured plumb before finally succeeding.  That screw and the tang screw are the part of the build I dread as much as barrel inletting.  On the other hand, I have examined about a dozen original rifles built by such as Figthorn, a couple of Becks and Dickert with the tang screw not flush/plumb to the tang.  (I am so happy when I can rationalize my mistakes as being period correct!).  I am now contemplating some sort of fixture to help get those two screws right the first try.  Pinning the buttplate return would be simple by  comparison- at least IMHO.

[California Kid]

For a first gun, I would use an easier butt plate to install.

[Don Getz]

If I were doing it, I woud remove the underlug, inlet the buttplate, then put one screw right in the middle of the heel of
plate, the other down toward the toe.  When you put that one in the heel it just seems to suck everything right into place
............Don

[flintriflesmith]

    Actually, the lug is correctly shaped.  The downward and forward angle of the lug allows it to pull the front extension of the butt plate forward firmly into the inlet.  ...

The reason I said it was odd looking was that I have never seen such a shape on and original butt piece. Just to see if my memory was failing I looked at those pictured in the Rifle Shop catalog. Like the old ones I have taken apart all of the RS offerings had either a simple lug or a hook for use with a staple.

I don't intend to say that some gun wasn't made with this huge oversize lug but I think I'll stand by my original statement that it is odd and could be reworked to make it more like most originals. After all it is the pin that holds the butt piece in place once it is inlet not the front and rear faces of the lug.

[Lucky R A]

Gary,  I certainly did not intend my comment as a gotcha.  I will certainly agree that pinning tabs come in all sizes and configurations.  I happen to like the one that hooks on a screw set into the buttplate inlet(easily adjustable).  After reading your response I went out into the shop and did a little checking, as I knew that I have seen the triangular shape a number of times.  I pulled one of Reaves' 2nd model Bess plates out and there it was.  I then removed the butt plate from an original Bess with a Jordan lock plate dated 1746, and there it was again.   It appears that several models of Brown Bess muskets used that configuration of tab.  I checked the inlet on on the Bess dated 1746  and it was carefully fitted as I described in my first post.   The form did have function.  It can be used as designed or modified at the whim of the builder.   Perhaps I'll see you at Pittsburg the end of next month...
Ron

[flintriflesmith]

Ron,
Maybe it is a British military thing? I have almost no experience with taking those apart.

I don't think I'll make it to the KRA. Too many other trips to deal with including the Gunsmithing Seminar at WKU and the CLA show.

Gary