An interesting puzzle, PA Buck & Ball gun?

[E.vonAschwege]

Hey folks,
   Picked this up a month ago on gunbroker and it was waiting at home when I got back from school.  From the auction, I couldn't tell much about what it was, and I haven't learned much more after handling it and seeing the details.  The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that it is American made, and that at one point it used to be about 15-17 inches longer than it is now.  
   The stock is maple with very little to no figure, and is broken in about a dozen pieces through the wrist and lower forestock.  The barrel is oct-round, roughly 45 cal smooth, is a bit over 1" at the breech, and is held to the stock with keys (all missing).  Based on the ramrod thimble spacing, the forward (missing) ramrod pipe would be another 15" further up the stock, which would bring the original barrel length somewhere around 46 inches long.  The forged lock has a detachable pan and a nifty fly set into the center of the tumbler, and what might be some kind of mark stamped on the inside.  It is a touch smaller overall than a large Siler, the sear screw has decorative filing on it.  The forestock has a simple one-groove molding, and there is some carving around the tang.  The buttplate and triggerguard have me stumped:  The cast BP has slight New England characteristics, and I've no idea on the styling of the triggerguard.  The sideplate has D GAFVERT engraved on the side, and reminds me of so many south-central PA sideplates.  
     It's a puzzle to me in the literal sense, as well as figuring out some idea of where it was made.  The overall lines and details make me think Lancaster/Berks area, but that's a total guess.  There are no proof marks on the barrel, and I can't find a signature anywhere.  What are your thoughts on the gun, any edumacated guesses to it's origin?  Its only provenance is that it has been in the seller's grandfather's basement in Bucks county all his life.  Thanks for your thoughts!  





































And a few more details of the lock here:  http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/HelmsDown/Unknown%20PA%20Buck%20and%20Ball%20gun/?start=0

[Nate McKenzie]

Boy! It'll challenging but fun to bring that old girl back to life.

[mr. no gold]

Georgous! Profile of stock looks a bit Yorkish or Adamstown to me. Hard to say though. Good for you to get such a neat early gun and restoring it will be lots of gun. Bring it back to the Forum when it is finished and let us all 'ooh and ahhh' over it.
Thanks-Dick

[billd]

I love the toe plate.

Bill

[Steve Collward]

Eric:  Nice find.  I've attached a couple of pictures of a flint fowler you might find of interest. The butt plate tang and the comb are a similar to yours.  There is however, no carving. 
  This one has a 43 1/4" octagon to round barrel (smoothbore) with no proofs (although the barrel has not been taken out of the stock).  I believe this is probably an old restock, possibly American?
  I do like the toe plate and trigger guard of yours. Certainly interesting.
Can send more pics if you would like.
Steve C.
   

[jwh1947]

Hard to tell exact location of origin here.  This looks like the normal beater that we pick up at auctions around here, and I don't mean that as an insult.  This is the type of piece where a builder/repairman can make good money resurrecting it.  Incidentally, show me one collector, just one, who has fetched a fast-turnover profit on any big money rifle that he has bought through commercial channels.  It doesn't work that way.  You have about as much chance of doing that as you have driving a new car off the lot and selling it to a neighbor for more than you paid.  Guns like this are the money makers, providing you buy them right.  Nothing here that can't be fixed.

[Mike Brooks]

The butt plate and trigger guard strike me as Germanic export hardware.

[JTR]

Interesting gun, and good buy Eric, although this one doesn’t lend itself to an easy regional attribution. At least not for me.

With the side plate and butt stock shape you could say Lancaster, except for the long wrist running down into the stock. The shape of the forearm, at least in the pics also looks a little Lancaster-ish. The lock and side plate moldings, and the small swelling at the rear RR pipe are pretty distinctive, as is the carving around the tang, although they’re not ringing a bell with me, although somehow I feel they should!
 
I’ll agree with Mike that the butt plate and trigger guard are imports, and I’ll include the ram rod thimbles as well.

I googled the name D. Gafvert and didn’t find one, but did find several Gafvert, even some in Bucks County. A genealogy search with a lot of luck might find your guy, and maybe where he came from before Bucks Co?

For an obscure clue, find a signed rifle with the same engraving details on the rear sight, and you’ll have your maker!

Luckily, it looks like no one has previously tried to re-glue the broken parts, and that will make the fix-up a lot easier.  A little bit of glue and a lot of work on your part, and you’ll be able to put her back in presentable condition.

John
 

[Mike Brooks]

I googled the name D. Gafvert and didn’t find one, but did find several Gafvert, even some in Bucks County. A genealogy search with a lot of luck might find your guy, and maybe where he came from before Bucks Co?

That name looks to have been engraved by a modern pantograph fairly recently, say the last 50 years or so.

[JTR]

Possibly, and the pic is not clear enough to really tell, but that style of engraving has been around for a very long time on silverware, cups and the like, so I wouldn't discount it completely as to period engraving.
If, by looking at it in person, Eric can tell that it's modern, then of course forget about it.
John

[DaveM]

I think this piece looks great as it is without restoration - just my opinion.  If it were mine I'd add a percussion hammer and call it a day.  You can't truly replicate honest age and wear.

[Stophel]

Gäfvert is a Scandinavian name.

Nice gun.  Very late 18th century?  Close to 1800, I'd guess.  The buttplate particularly is very neoclassical.  You can tell the toeplate was made by the gunsmith and the buttplate was not intended for use with one, or it would be similarly styled.

[E.vonAschwege]

GAH!  How did my life get so busy the last two weeks, this is nuts!!  Thank you all for your comments and thoughts on the gun. 

The name Gafvert looks to be engraved by machine under the jewelers loupe, so that eliminates any relevant ownership provenence.  Besides the name on the sideplate and the grease fitting for a nipple, the rest of the gun is pretty much untouched, which will make gluing it up a lot easier and neater.

I've looked through all my books hoping to find a keystone feature on another gun, but no such luck.  Sideplate is similar to a bunch of guns from different regions, closest I can find being Lancaster, but it's still too generic.  The carving, though elegent, is also somewhat generic.  Finding a gun with similar or the same engraving on the sight would do it.  For now I'm content with it just being an American, likely Pennsylvania piece from close to 1800 or so. 

The several recent threads on restoration give me something to ponder, but as it is the gun doesn't even hold itself together, so the wood must be repaired.  I don't have plans for a full out restoration to flintlock or stretching it at this time (though I don't object to the thought).  I'm going to focus on stabilizing the wrist and forestock, and replacing some missing wood around the lock, sideplate, and forestock. 

I'll bring it to Dixon's to get some more thoughts on it.  Thanks again for your thoughts, I'll post some more shots once the stock is in one piece.
-Eric

[JTR]

Ha! I didn't realize it had a grease fitting for a nipple,,,, so the questions answered,,, it's an early grease gun!!

I think you have a good plan in gluing the wood back together, etc, to at least make it whole again.
As for the lock, it looks like it might originally had a detachable pan? If so, if you ever re-flint it, I'd go with a detachable pan just to keep it simple.

Nice find!

John

[mr. no gold]

The profile of your gun is very much like an F. Sell, Adamstown rifle, that I have. Mine is a smooth gun with no grip rail, but does have a patch box , cheek rest and the obligatory F. Sell toe plate (per Kindig). Mine is about the same age/period that yours probably is; that is the late 1700s.  You might look into that area as a place of origin. If you placed the two side by side, I think that the similarities would stand out. Oh yes, mine is still in flint and has not been Zurk converted. Thanks!
Dick