TOTW kits

[SuperCracker]

Hi all. I am getting ready to dive into my first build and was considering heavily a TOTW (jaeger) kit.

Having no experience in this area I wanted to see what the general opinion and feel of their kits was.

So...................what ya'll think?

[bdixon]

Good kit, the forearm will have to be shaped and the fancy butt plate will take some patience to inlet.  Over-all a stout tough looking little rifle.  Mine is in 62. plain maple, brass trim, wooden pat ch box.

[Bill of the 45th]

Track's kits are OK, but for more choices google jaeger rifle kits, and you will have some more choices, of which Davis is one with a cheaper kit, and they supply track with the locks.  Shop around and talk to the suppliers, as in give them a call.  A swamped barrel Jaeger is not necessarily a good first build, as Davis suggests, and you will note none of these kits come with directions, they are just a collection of the parts needed to build a gun

[Birddog6]

If you are considering a Acanthus Leaf buttplate, is probably one of the hardest buttplates to inlet, as it has to go straight down  from the top & you have to guess at how much to remove in the middle & back out at the toe.  NOT a easy one for a first rifle for sure.  I can do 3-4 Lancaster buttplates in the time it takes me to do one  Acanthus Leaf buttplate.

I would suggest build several Lancasters first then tackle the Jaeger  if  you want the Acanthus Leaf  buttplate.

Tip Curtis also has a Jaeger parts set.  (615) 654-4445

[bdixon]

All true.  Butt plate is tough!  Very nice when finished  correctly, but tough.  TOTW kits are good, but don't compare to some available, you really get what you pay for in this case.

[SuperCracker]

I actually don't care for the acanthus plate. That said, I also can't tell you exactly which one I'm leaning towards either.  I have several simple, military type rifles that I like the styling of. I know that I want all iron furniture. Especially if I end up deciding on  styling it after something a soldier might have been carrying.

I also appreciate every ones advice about this being a difficult kit. I'm aware of that and realize it is a somewhat advanced starting point, but it is what I'm stuck on and I know how my mind ,and ocd, works. If it's not exactly the mental image I create then I won't be able to focus on it. On all my projects I have a tendency to spend a long time completely finishing it in my head (and in sketch) before I start work on anything and then sticking with that mental image.

While I do have no rifle building experience I have a lot of experience with building, machining and fitting other things. I have been building my own longbows and arrows for some time (got interested in ML when I hurt my shoulder). I also have built and road raced GP motorcycles for a LONG time before that and designed and built the majority of special parts needed myself.

[satwel]

I have built only one TOTW kit, the Type D Fusil. The finished gun is pretty good. I would not recommend it to a first time builder. I would rank my skills at the journeyman level and I had trouble getting the buttplate and triggerguard to fit the pre-inlets. I had to do a lot of heating, pounding and bending. The musket turned out great, but if I hadn't already built half a dozen Lancaster rifles, I never would have gotten the kit together. IMHO building a kit that is pre-inletted is actually harder than installing the mounts on a blank stock. For the most part, you can only shape, bend, stretch, pound and file the metal components to fit the inlets whereas on a blank stock you have more options. You can change either the inlet in the wood or the shape of the mount or both until you achieve a perfect fit.

[SuperCracker]

IMHO building a kit that is pre-inletted is actually harder than installing the mounts on a blank stock. For the most part, you can only shape, bend, stretch, pound and file the metal components to fit the inlets whereas on a blank stock you have more options. You can change either the inlet in the wood or the shape of the mount or both until you achieve a perfect fit.

That was my thought as well. Plus I would particularly like to be able to rework some of the lock to more closely match the locks on the originals I was looking at. Which would, of course, preclude any pre inletting.

[Nate McKenzie]

May I suggest Jim Chambers    www.flintlocks.com   Christian Springs- Edward Marshal kit would be easier for a first build. They look very jaeger-like and the quality is the best. I have built several for people.

[frogwalking]

I have had very good luck with TOW stuff.  I have never ordered a kit as I always want a different lock, or butt plate or, well, you know.  I ordered a precarve stock inletted for barrel.  I inletted lock, buttplate and other stuff.  The quality of the wood was as advertised, the lock was a Chambers late Ketland, lock, so it is first class; the Green Mountain barrel seems destined to be an accurate shooter once I get the load settled down and the sights filed into place.  I would not suggest you have TOW cut your dovetails for sights.  I did and both were too loose to fit the sights I ordered from them.  I get the back sight to work by building it up on the bottom but had to make another front sight.  Dovetails are just not that hard to cut yourself.  Start with the bottom ones that don't show.  You need to be aware that some of the locks they sell are not as well made, reliable, and durable as others.  These days, I always try to get a Chambers lock.  That avoids any potential problems. 

[SuperCracker]

I'm gonna be putting together different parts from different places I've decided. No one really has a kit that is what I have envisioned.

[Long John]

I have to agree with Satwel on the idea that pre-inlet stocks are often not the easiest way to go.  If the inlets are done wrong then you are stuck!  I assembled one "kit" (actually a parts set) for my nephew.  The inlet for the barrel tang was longer than the tang!  I had to stretch the tang 1/8th inch to fill the hole.  The side plate was off position so I had to make a new one of those to fill that hole and properly fill the flat panel on the off-side of the stock.

TOTW will partially inlet the stock for you if you so desire.

As for letting in the butt-plate - bend the butt plate so its a little more than 90 degrees.  Let in the top extension and then fit the vertical section to the stock blank.  Now bend back to original angle.  There will be just some minor fine fitting yet to do.  Easier with an annealed brass butt plate than a steel one, for sure!

Best Regards,

JMC

[SuperCracker]

I was gonna get a blank from Pecatonica with just the barrel inletted.

I'm very much looking forward to getting going on this and learning how to do it right.

Simple build first, then I want to tackle something with more carving and engraving. Also probably gonna try to restock my Pedersoli Kodiak first just as a stock carving excercise more than anything.

I would REALLY like to build a double flinter shotgun eventually. I know a great place here in Fl that holds a lot of dove and wild coveys of quail, but it has them because it's a muzzleloader only area. So no one goes there. Just stalking around hunting pigs it's not uncommon to flush half a dozen decent coveys in a morning. And that's without dogs. Lord knows how many I walk right past that don't flush.

[The other DWS]

I'm in the final stages, stain/finish, of building a TOTW kit based on the french type c.  w/iron furniture comments as follows
A. quality of parts is good though some castings have lot of flashing to remove, some are quite large.  mot parts will require a lot of finishing and polishing.
B. their precarved stock was really frustrating.  the barrel and RR channels fit almost prefectly,  even the "wedding bands" on the Colraine barrel were very nicely inletted.  However this actually presented a problem.
the lock was about 80% pre-inlet and the relative lock and barrel positions were fixed.  I wanted to shift the relationship of the barrel back or the lock forward a smidge to more properly position them for a Chambers touchhole liner.  they were perfectly placed if one planned on using a straight drilled touchhole.  resolving this required some finageling, involving re configuring the pan cavity a bit----and a LOT of thinking and planning.
C.  the pre inlets for the buttplate (the ornate sorta-acanthus leaf type) was a serious pain-  I would up bending the final up out of the way, inletting the rest of the plate and than tapping it back down and inletting as I did so.  Their inletting for it was a bit off and a bit generous.  I suspect it'd be fine for other simpler buttplates.
D.  I ran into a the same problem with the routed-out inletting for the complex and ornate sideplate and the trigger guard finals as well.  over generous in spots too, tight in others.
E. the wood is very plain which is OK for my use since it will be stained dark, however it seemed awfully soft in spots where I had to do fine carving--buttplate trigger guard and side plate.

F. as mentioned there are no instructions, per se;  just a large scale drawing that gives some basic profiles and positions.  In fact they seem to use one basic "plan" for several different french arms and they do not match up in some small details.   Either experience or a GOOD basic flintlock building book will be needed by most.

Overall it is a good solid sound assembly of components good quality for the money I think, but --at least for more complex arms with more ornate detail--they can present problems for those with inexperience or those who are not willing to spend a lot of time and effort. For instance I imagine that  their more basic "Tulle hunting gun" would be much more straight forward, and a better "first-build" selection.

there are other excellent options that are a more comfortable experience.  My cousin who never built a flint long arm before bought a Chambers fowler kit and enrolled at the Connor Prairie summer gun building program to assemble it.  He had a delightful experience and the resulting product is all one could ask for.