Author Topic: a composite fusil  (Read 10087 times)

Offline alex e.

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a composite fusil
« on: May 29, 2010, 02:52:59 PM »
I  had the idea and parts for this gun a couple years now and finally got it started in March when I was sick at home.Its basically a mishmash of French parts on a low grade piece of Euro. walnut[theres quite a bit of wormholes the photos do not show. Its my interpretation of what maybe a poor habitant in New France might of had.A bunch of parts spanning  a few decades and assembled in the French style.

Mold and Gun Shop "Continental" French flintlock,bears a good likeness to better grade lock made in France in the early half of the 1700's
A sideplate & buttplate off a trade gun
The trigger guard I call "Frenchlike"I have not  found one like in in any of my books or on Euro. auction sites.But the finials are in the French style. Maybe some one else can verify one way or the other.
The barrel is a Colerain Fowler barrel,46" .66 cal.  I took the flare off of the muzzle,as well as shortening up the octagon section to 12 "
Weighes in at 7 lb. 1 oz.

I'm kinda happy with the end product,but in my eyes there are some things i'm not happy with. but thats how you learn and why I like doing this stuff.


I hope you like it, Alex








« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 07:04:11 PM by alexsnr »
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Offline 490roundball

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 03:24:40 PM »
sorry but- whats not to be happy with??

"It's a poor word that can't be spelt two ways" Tom Yeardley in Swanson's Silent Drum

Offline alex e.

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2010, 03:50:26 PM »
The buttplate finial inletting is a little sloppier than I like,I don't know if the transition from the front of the lock panels to the entry pipe[on the sides] is too fast or not.The big one in my mind is that i had some vent hole issues[being I broke a bit off] and now the location is off some,I'm sure it will still go boom,but it still bothers me all the same.
Mainly all little stuff,but I think the little stuff can be more annoying than one big thing sometimes.But then again  I am my own worse critic.

Alex.
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2010, 05:07:29 PM »
Well. that "habitant" must have been a classy dude!!  I don't know if the architecture is "right" for a French gun (my ignorance) but I like the shape and the finish all the way around. It is a sweet gun.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 05:20:25 PM by DrTimBoone »
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Offline alex e.

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 05:18:42 PM »
Actually ,the pattern is off of a 1720's silver mounted gun. And by some coincidence it almost perfectly mirrors a St. Etienne Fusil de Chasse pattern I have.
Popular styles of the period I suppose.

Alex
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 05:21:37 PM by alexsnr »
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 06:44:24 PM »
VERY nifty Alex, great job as usual. Nothing about it I don't like. I especially like the engraving on the sideplate....how utterly French. I found that trigger guard on an antique gun once, I believe it was actually a pre 1750 English gun. :o That wood has just enough black in it to keep it interesting.
 You're going to get a real kick out of the gun that will be coming off my bench early next week., right up your alley. ;D
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Offline alex e.

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2010, 07:02:53 PM »
Thanks guys, Though I confess I did not engrave the sideplate,

Mike ,Thanks for the info on the trigger guard.In my mind it was more English style than anything.More the straightness of it all than the finials.The time period fits into the rest of the parts though.
Thanks again, Alex
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Daryl

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2010, 07:18:00 PM »
It looks like it will shoot just fine. I'd be careful about the grain structure through the wrist, though.  Nicely done.  I do like the stock's colour along with the fiddle.

northmn

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2010, 12:07:49 AM »
It looks like one of the few French recreations I have seen that might actually fit someone and be comfortable to shoot.  So many hav the exagerated comb and the butt plate at a rather strange angle that appears like it wants to jump at you.  This does not have that.  Looks like a shooter.

DP

Offline Artificer

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2010, 07:09:25 PM »
Alexsnr,

I hope I am not taking the thread off too far on a tangent, but I've always wondered about shouldering those "more rounded" French buttplates and whether they slip and how much they slip in the shoulder?  I realize a fowler doesn't require holding as steady for as long before you shoot, but that's something I've always wondered about.

Gus

Offline alex e.

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2010, 07:43:14 PM »
Gus, Ive never really given it a thought,so I guess I never really had a problem with it.At least in my mind. :) Now a gun of that style that does not have enough drop is another story.....Sorry if that not a real good answer..Maybe others have thoughts.

Alex
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Offline Dan'l 1946

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2010, 09:05:32 PM »
Alex--great job on this gun! I occasionally see original French trade gun/fusils and your gun looks very much like them. Great fit and finish and lovely lines!
                                      Dan

The other DWS

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2010, 03:14:24 AM »
great interpretation.  If anything the the fit and finish may be a bit too well done for a locally assembled gun using a misch-mosch of recycled parts in a similar-to-factory style. 

  In my research in rural eastern canadian museums in a previous occupational incarnation I saw a number of variations on that theme,  some cut down to 30 or shorter barrels, rifle barrels replacing smoothbores, conversion to percussion,  mixtures of furniture, restocking in north american wood, and any and all combinations there of.  there were even some with old and very worn rather crudely done Indian carving and decoration--not just the brass tack thing.

The French system was a LOT different than the English.  Most of the imported firearms were provided via government arsenals back in France.  very little private civilian enterprise involved.  Distribution to French-Canadian habitants and the indians, at least in theory, was done under colonial government regulation with policy set back in France.  However the near-feudal control and in some cases, leased ownership, of the upper country trading posts and communities led to some very creative interpretation once the military and commercial traders got beyond the reach and eye of the Colonial authorities.  Prior to the British takeover most of the classes of gun builder/repairmen were either government employees of contractors assigned to post and military units to provide services to military, Indian allies, and hibitant/courier-de-bois/voyageur doing "militia duty"

Offline alex e.

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2010, 03:23:34 AM »
DWS,

Exactly what you said is true. A friend of mine has all the documentation to back it up.

Thanks,Alex
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Offline Artificer

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2010, 05:13:22 AM »
Gus, Ive never really given it a thought,so I guess I never really had a problem with it.At least in my mind. :) Now a gun of that style that does not have enough drop is another story.....Sorry if that not a real good answer..Maybe others have thoughts.

Alex

Alex,

Actually the fact you never really had a problem is a good answer to my question. 

I'm a bit surprised you mentioned it does not have enough drop as it looks like it has a bunch of drop.  Or maybe you were kidding?

Gus

Offline alex e.

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 05:41:35 AM »
Gus, i was not referring to this specific gun.But it seems guns of this style with not as much drop in them tend to be in the very least"cheek biters."i have used this profile a time or two and it has been a most comfortable gun to shoulder.

Alex
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Offline Artificer

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2010, 06:23:14 AM »
Thanks for the clarification, Alex.

Gus

Offline Lucky R A

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2010, 01:36:56 PM »
       Alex,  You carried it off well mon ami.   I like the Euro walnut in the stock, it confirms what I will use on the Jaeger.  The side plate does look a little familiar... glad Mike liked it.   Now will you be able to turn loose of it, or has it become one of the family????   
       P.S. it was a hot one at U.A. 
Ron
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northmn

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2010, 03:33:30 PM »
Actually what I have seen on many French recreations is a very slanted buttplate, with the toe slanted too far in, which cannot be shouldered properly.  It is a very important part of gun fit.  Yours looks like it will snug up against the shoulder properly.  The curves make little difference on fit as you put your cheek in one place, which is where the drop is important.  If anything a gun with stock curves like yours should tend to drop away from the face on recoil.  In my search of pictures of original "Fusil de Chasse"
I do not see the toe in I am describing, even on those with a more pronounced curved comb.  Yours is an excellent example of what I am talking about for addressing that issue.

DP

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2010, 05:20:35 PM »
I've built a few of the french style fusil/muskets over the years and have never noticed an issue with the butt profile, even using patched roundballs in the larger bore versions.  I HAVE gotten bitten by the edged of some of the flat-strap buttplates on NW and HBC repros, but they tend to be light for bore anyway.
  By far the biggest problem I've experienced shooting them is too short a length of draw---on some you very quickly learn to NOT wrap your thumb over the top of the wrist.

northmn

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2010, 07:08:52 PM »
I built a 12 bore colonial styled musket (I used to call it Committee of Safety but found out the difference) and built it with a straight buttplate and proper drop at comb and proper length of pull.  Double charged it one time at a trap shoot with about 180 grains of powder behind 1 1/4 oz of shot.  It belted me but there was no real pain from the little mistake.  As to buttplate positioning, it does not make much difference for round ball shooting but can through a shot charge off.  Some trap shooters have special buttplates that can be adjusted for toe in toe out and angle.  A buttplate should fit agains the shoulder in a comfortable manner when the comb is lined up with the cheek.  that is proper gun fit and some French Repos I see so not have that.  The shooter would have to compensate for the fit.  As to NWTG's, even the Natives complained that they were "too straight" upon occaision, according to Hansens records.  some of the precarved stocks and kits carry the mistakes over.   The best fitting smoothbores to me are English or American English influenced fowlers.  Alex's gun also looks like a good fit. 

DP

Offline FALout

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2010, 01:51:54 AM »
Nice job.  As Daryl already pointed out, the grain at the wrist is the only concern.  Good wood color and parts fitment.  You should be proud.
Bob

northmn

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2010, 02:15:50 PM »
I am working on a walnut stock that ended up with a little cross grain on the wrist .  Hopefully they stand up.  Asked about that a while back and some of the suggestions from the pros were if it ain't broke don't fix it.  The trigger guard on your build should offer some reinforcement.

DP

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2010, 02:23:27 PM »
Nothing wrong with the grain structure in that wrist. We have all seen two hundred year old originals with horrible cross grain that have survived the ages intact. No worries unless you use it for a club.
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

northmn

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Re: a composite fusil
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2010, 02:55:52 PM »
Nothing wrong with the grain structure in that wrist. We have all seen two hundred year old originals with horrible cross grain that have survived the ages intact. No worries unless you use it for a club.

Kind of wondered about that :)  Thank you

DP