How did they do that?

[Jerry V Lape]

On the rear inside cover of June Muzzle Blasts there is a shot bag among the items in the photo.  The bag has a vine and some initials on the front.  I think the vine is just stitched down but the initials don't appear to be stitched.  Anyone have an idea of how the maker did these?

[Luke MacGillie]

well, seeing how its a CONTEMPORARY Longrifle Association ad, its most likely done in a contemporary early 21st century manner.  Sometimes that CLA stuff is just a guys version of "Your Country Home".  Ranks right up there with Red, white and yellow Betsy Ross flags

[T.C.Albert]

Wow....I kinda like that "CLA" stuff...and find it quite remarkable that so many fine CLA craftsmen here in the early 21st century can work in an appropriate researched and traditional 18th/19th century manner, often crafting some of the best examples of our continuing long rifle culture extant...but maybe thats just me.

Jerry...I dont have the issue yet, but Im sure an inquiry to either the CLA or NMLRA would be able to get you the artists name....and then you can ask them directly how it was done...I've always found most CLA members are generally happy to share their craft and skills with intersted folks...
TCA

[Luke MacGillie]

Wow....I kinda like that "CLA" stuff...and find it quite remarkable that so many fine CLA craftsmen here in the early 21st century can work in an appropriate researched and traditional 18th/19th century manner, often crafting some of the best examples of our continuing long rifle culture extant...but maybe thats just me.
TCA

I appreciate the art, and what it takes to make the items, but when use of the items goes beyond display in a home or wear at friendship and rendevous, and is presented as an authentic replica of a period artifact as part of public education, I have issues with it.....  Ok the problem is not the artist, but the patron of the artist not having the situational awareness to know the proper venue to display and or use the piece of art.  And no one wants to be told that the 3k rifle and 2k knife they just bought cant be used for their reenactment impression and texpect to the items being made by a CLA member makes it "Authentic"

[T.C.Albert]

Would you be willing to talk of specific items? I honestly dont know of many if any non functional or traditionally fradulent items made and sold by members of the CLA...in fact most members pride themselves on carrying on the tradition of their crafts to the best of their abilities...
TCA

[Jerry V Lape]

Geez Luke, I was only asking if anyone knew how to do the craft shown on the bag.  Didn't mean to disrupt whatever time warp it is you are living in at the moment.  My apology !

[elk killer]

i dont know how they do it either..
all i know is my daughter can do it,,
she did something similier for my wifes bag

[Jefferson58]

The pouch in question was made by Joe Mills, certainly one of the most talented artists we have working today. It was also prominently featured in the new CLA magazine.

I suspect that if you could look at the pouch more closely, you would find that the overlays were sewn on. Every one I have seen has the pieces attached this way. This seems to have been a popular form of decoration in the 1820's - 1830's period.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[Luke MacGillie]

Would you be willing to talk of specific items? I honestly dont know of many if any non functional or traditionally fradulent items made and sold by members of the CLA...in fact most members pride themselves on carrying on the tradition of their crafts to the best of their abilities...
TCA

Im not going to talk specific items, but in general terms:

Ticking lined shooting bags, lined shooting bags in general

Loading blocks, loading blocks in the shape of your animal totem

Cloth bags with leather flaps, Civillian Haversacks

Fantasy rifles.....

[T.C.Albert]

Thanks Luke...I for one lok forward to your future posts as you educate me on these topics.
Back to Joe's bag that you specifically ripped on...any more educational comments?
TCA

[Luke MacGillie]

Thanks Luke...I for one lok forward to your future posts as you educate me on these topics.
Back to Joe's bag that you specifically ripped on...any more educational comments?
TCA

Well, it is a pouch, but it looks nothing like what I have come to know as a representative pouch of the last half of the 18th Century......

[T.C.Albert]

Ahh...now we are getting somewhere...will you describe in as much detail as you can what a pouch from the last half of the 18th century is supposed to be constructed like? And perhaps give a few references for me as I myself am most curious as well...
Thanks in advance,
TCA

[Luke MacGillie]

Im not really interested in playing that game

I think it would be a better idea to talk about  how most supposed 18th Century repro pouches dont look like the Lyman or Walton pouches.....

[T.C.Albert]

Thanks Luke...but that really doesnt help me alot. Im afraid that Ive said too much here already and will bow out of this conversation...except I realize that I neglected to say welcome to the ALR for which I apologize.

Jerry, sorry your thread was hijacked, but returning to your question...
I can contact Joe if you like about his technique on that bag...it does appear to be as Jeff says as seen in the AT magazine photos...that being an applied surface decoration...
there was an embelishment technique used in Europe in the !7 and 18th century where the leather surface was actually quilted in a way...a raised vien could be made by awling through only the surface of the leather from side to side, and drawing it tight and raising the vien above the leathers surface with side to side saddle stitches...this was used alot for fancy work on sword belts (baldrics?) and is being replicated by some top notch craftsmen in England today...in the end result, it looks very much like the vine work on Joe's bag flap, but from the pictures, I cant tell if joe did it that way or not...  
TCA

[Jerry V Lape]

T. C.  I would appreciate very much learning how that vine and initials were created.  I can see how the vine could be either applied or done with the surface stitching technique.  The initials however don't seem to be done the same way.  

Very nice work in any case - inspired me to make another bag for myself.  I don't make items for others or for sale so I wouldn't be competing with anyone.  And it wasn't you hijacking the posting.  Our new friend is just expressing his passion for the historical aspects of this pass time.  His work might be very interesting if it reflects the passion and is well executed - which I hope it is.  

Elk Killer, can you share a photo of your wife's bag or some of your daughter's work like this? 

[James Rogers]

there was an embelishment technique used in Europe in the !7 and 18th century where the leather surface was actually quilted in a way...a raised vien could be made by awling through only the surface of the leather from side to side, and drawing it tight and raising the vien above the leathers surface with side to side saddle stitches...this was used alot for fancy work on sword belts (baldrics?) and is being replicated by some top notch craftsmen in England today...in the end result, it looks very much like the vine work on Joe's bag flap, but from the pictures, I cant tell if joe did it that way or not...  
TCA

That bees a false butt stitch and I suck at it.  
Really makes for a nice piece.

[T.C.Albert]

James...you are exactly right...when I corresponded with the fellow in England asking how he was doing this stitch in his work, thats what he called it...I think he said a long, pointy, curved awl is an assett too...I love the effect, but it works better on some leathers than others...I have a nice cream colored oil tan hide saved back for a project I am planning to surface with a decorative butt stitch here this summer...I think it will work well for the job....wish me luck...

Jerry, I will try to call Mr. Mills tonight or tomorrow to ask about the flap decorations on the bag...I will post any thing I find out..
TCA

[msw]

That bees a butt stitch and I suck at it. 
Really makes for a nice piece.
 
 
 
ayup... i've 'filtched' a few techniques from my wife's embroidery books, with the same result (i.e. - i suck at it).  kinda makes you wonder what those long- married couples talked about after the kids went to bed...

as regards the by- play of the PC/HC wars... if it's your raison detre (sp?) is to be as period correct as you can, then that's your business and i applaud your effort to perserve the tradition, up to the point where you berate my inclusion of african wood inlays onto a rifle i built ... i never tried to state or imply in any way that it wasn't anything "authentic," and until and unless i start on that fraud, don't be calling me a bunch of names.

just one guy's free opinion, and no doubt worth what you paid for it.

[T.C.Albert]

Update..
I tried to call Joe Mills this weekend, but couldnt get ahold of him..
I will keep trying ...

Monday morning 8:30 CST...I spoke with Joe a few moments ago...he said all of the decorations (initials too) on the bag in question were simply stitched to the flap using an up down type or flat "lacing" type stitch...a good close look at the bag and the technique can be seen in the American Tradition image of the bag...( I still havent seen the new MB...so dont know if its a full page image like the A.T. or not?)
TCA

[Jerry V Lape]

T.C. , Thank  you and Joe for the information on how that decoration was done.  Helps a lot.  I am not familiar with the American Tradition you referred to and was unable to find an appropriate website relating to it.  Is that a magazine or website?

Jerry

[T.C.Albert]

Jerry..."American Tradition" is the new magazine published for and about the CLA.

It goes to all members gratis with membership...I think the very first volume also went to KRA members...Volume 2 is being worked up now..

Its a full glossy color magazine that really was well recieved when the first  volume came out last February...I imagine volume 2 will be every bit as good or better..
TCA

[Ole Doc]

There is another name for that stitchun , be a lie if I named it.
Fella up in Montanna does it on bags.
Fancy embroidery type stuff .
Fella does "CREWEL STITCHING" on his bag flaps

[Ole Doc]

and Crewel stitching goes back over 1000 years
so I think it is CLA approved.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

http://inaminuteago.com/stitchindex.html

Stem stitch is also known as crewel stitch, stalk stitch and South Kensington stitch. Stem stitch is often worked to outline a shape



Work from left to right taking small regular stitches with a forwards and backwards motion along the line of the design.

Bring the thread up from the back of the fabric on the line you want to stitch.

Make a stitch forward and bring the needle up, a little to the back of the first stitch.

Pull the thread through the fabric.


Make the second stitch forward, bringing the needle out a little to the back of the second stitch.

Repeat this back and forth movement along the line.

The thread is kept to the right of the needle after picking up a small piece of material. This means that it always emerges from the left side of the previous stitch.

If the thread is worked to the left of the needle, the stitch produced is slightly different, and is known as outline stitch.

See also Whipped Stem Stitch which is a version of Stem Stitch

[Ole Doc]

guys that sew are cool.