Author Topic: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?  (Read 13342 times)

Offline Maven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 644
Just took delivery of an older NS[W] .62cal. smoothie and wonder what the correct RB diameter should be.  Measuring the bbl. ~3/4" in from the muzzle (with a dial caliper) gave me .615" max. and .610" min.  I'll remeasure later, but before I purchase RB's, or better yet, a mould from Jeff Tanner, I'd like to know what I'll need.  Thanks in advance for your guidance.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 08:12:07 PM by pwbrasky »
Paul W. Brasky

northmn

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 05:19:07 PM »
If you are getting a mold of any diameter many good shooters are having luck with the 590 in a 20 bore.   If you are poorer or too tight like me many have used a 600 Lee mold.  Track of the Wolf sells cast round ball and sometimes you are ahead ordering a couple of diffeent sizes before buying a mold just to see.  Some of the older barrels seem to be rather liberal in their gauge desgnation.

DP

Offline Longknife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2058
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 05:30:31 PM »
I shoot a .715 in my .750 Bess (.035 clearance) and a .690 in my .729 trade gun (.039 clearance) and a .600 in my .625 fowler (.025 clearance) The Bess and trade gun shoots all day with a thick well lubed patch but I have to accasionally clean the bore on the fowler and would realt prefer a .590 (.035 clearance)  I would recommend a minimum of .035 under bore size, that shoud be a .575 for your .610 bore....Ed



P.S. A .575 ball would give you the .035 clearance and .575 balls and molds are readily available. Why don't you get some .575's and try'em out!!!HMMMM I think I have some, shoot me an e-mail if ya want to try 'em out!!!!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 05:50:02 PM by Longknife »
Ed Hamberg

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 06:03:45 PM »
I think the reduction to .575" is a bit too much, even for your 'tight' 20 bore.   You can or should be able to load a .585" to .590" with no problem with a thick enough patch to hold sufficient lube (.018" to .022").  Your bore is the tightest I've heard of yet.

 I was shooting Taylor's Lee .600" mould in my choked .62 that cast .605"x.608" pure lead ball, but ordered my own mould from Jeff Tanner at .595".  This size easy loading (.610" muzzle diameter) and there is no need to wipe at any time throughout the day's shooting.  In ratio, that would mean .590 to .595" for your gun. It takes a whack with a short starter to start the ball, but goes done easily after that and doesn't foul no matter how many shots are taken.  'm using a .0215" ticking patch.

The larger bores, like 16's through 10's seem to do OK with much smaller balls, ie: .030" or so under bore size, but most 20's I've seen do well or best with slightly larger ratio balls.

Ball size for your bore depends on the lead alloy you are using to some extent.  If you want to, or need to shoot very hard balls, then you might have to sue a .575" or .580" ball.

I would try .575's and see what happens.  I would not go smaller than that, though, and feel .585" might be about perfect for any hardness lead.

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3112
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2010, 07:15:06 PM »
pwbrasky,

So far you are getting some good information for shooting patched round ball like as in a rifle. Do you plan to shoot your smooth gun in that manner or with a naked ball and wadding?

Even if you have made a choice, I would suggest trying the alternate.  ;D

Offline Maven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 644
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2010, 08:30:15 PM »
All, I remeasured the bbl. and got a uniform .615" (edited my original post to reflect this.)  I will indeed try the .595"- and .600"RB's as suggested.  (One of my friend's kindly offered to loan me a .600" bag/primitive mould .)  With respect to what I'll be casting with, "pure" Pb initially and wheel weights + 1% Sn later (have more of the latter than the former) and it's a bit easier to cast a heavy RB from the latter (don't need nearly as high a temp. to get good results).  As for Lee Precision moulds, I'll certainly keep the .600" RB in mind, but I fear their RB molds cast a bit large, which is a good thing when I'm casting & sizing elongated bullets for metallic cartridges.  Btw, I intend to load it with RB's rather than shot and have already purchased 3/16" felt (Duro-Felt) and a 5/8" arch punch for overpowder wads should they be necessary.

One last question:  Will the .615" bore diameter (v. .610" I first posted) change the range of RB diameters, and ultimately mold diameter, I should be considering?
Paul W. Brasky

digger

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 08:41:26 PM »
I shoot .600 round ball out of a Lee mold, and a .015 patch, 80gr FFF out of my Tulle, and it is super accurate, easy loading and a heck of a lot of fun. It took first place in our trade gun match on Memorial Day, and has had plenty of top ten finishes in the rifle matches here locally. Just my .02

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 12:52:43 AM »
I agree- a .600 or .595 will work just fine.  With a .615 bore, I'd be using the .595 for ease of loading and good accuracy.  Note, as you know, when casting harder than pure alloys, they will cast a couple to .003" large.

Offline Maven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 644
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 01:55:16 AM »
Daryl, et al., Thanks so much for the expert advice.  It's exactly what I needed.  Looks like I'll be getting in touch with Jeff Tanner in the very near future!
Paul W. Brasky

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5314
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2010, 02:15:06 AM »
Pwbrasky's situation is much like mine.  Lots of good info in the posts, too.  I don't mean to hijack this thread but would like to get feedback on the same solutions. 

My fowler's bore is .615 as well.  I have a Lee mold that throws nice .600 balls with PURE LEAD.  I want to use WW and save the pure lead for the rifles.  WW balls measure .606.  .600 lead balls require pounding, often as not, to seat with .016 patch (they start okay, mostly).  Accuracy deteriorates with thinner patch.  Impossible to even start with WW ball. 

Daryl, you suggested a .590 to pbrasky as a good possibility.  I contacted Jeff Tanner and a .590 mold can be had for under $30 (not including shipping).  WW ball would then measure some .596 + or --.   Does this sound like a good idea?  I'm just guessing pw's has the same loading characteristics.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2010, 02:46:31 PM »
I think if you order .590", the cavities should be cut at exactly .590", meaning they will cast slightly undersize in pure lead, perhaps .586/7 and a WW ball should run .590" at most.  The harder alloy will normally cast close to cavity size, but not over.  i do have one of Jeff's moulds in .675" and that is what it casts in WW, but only a couple thou smaller in pure.  I normally shoot a .684' in the .69, but WW are too hard in that size, therefore the 'order' for the smaller ball for hard lead.  I use the same patch with both pure and hard, for both sizes - .030"(caliper measure) and the muzzle doens't cut it even in WW alloy. With the mic. these patches run .025".  These run .008 to .010" compression per side, yet load fine with hard lead.

Here's the crown on that peashooter.  I see a groove that appears to have a slight defect - 11 o'clockin the picture.  since this rifle made a 6 shot group at 200 yards that was 1 1/4" wide X 3 1/2" tall - at 200 yards, I guess it isn't effecting it much.  That group makes 5/8MOA X 1-3/4MOA.  The reamer marks on the lands of this 24 year old barrel also seem not to hurt it too much in the accuracy department either. If I had to guess, I'd say there was well over 5,000 shots fired through this tube.

Leatherbelly

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2010, 06:20:13 PM »
 My French fowler has a Colerain 44" Oct./Rnd barrel that is supposed to be a .62. The muzzle is exactly .610, a slight choke. I've been using a .595 ball mould (.022 patch) and it works pretty good. I use a short starter to get the ball down and well past the choke with no problems.It shoots just fine if I can get the wingnut behind the buttstock adjusted right!

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5314
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2010, 06:44:19 PM »
Thanks, Daryl; I never considered the mold cavity dimension's affect on the pure lead ball.  I'll keep that in mind when I order.  I like loads tight enough to require a short starter but loose enough to seat without rod breaking pressure.

I did the "thumb crowning" trick on a .50 rifle and it looks pretty good to me.  I'll get a pic posted before long.  I may try the same thing on the fowler.  I started with fine emery paper and finished up with 0000 steel wool.

Pw, I'd like to hear what load you settle on.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

BrownBear

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2010, 07:09:41 PM »
This has been really useful to me as I'm collecting components to put a Green Mountain 62 cal drop-in to work.  Thanks to all for informed replies.

If I can offer a follow-up, I know of at least one instance where the owner (Rounball) had this same barrel rifled.  If after using it awhile I decide to rifle it, am I safe in assuming I might want to jump up from a .600 or so ball to something on the order of .610?

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2010, 06:03:10 AM »
I'm currently shooting 3 drams 2F (82gr.) for most shooting out to 50 yards, and 100gr. 2F for the long shots.  This seems to be working out fairly well.  I would try more powder for the longer shots, but am getting low on powder.

Offline satwel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2010, 09:24:45 PM »
I've settled on a .590 ball and .020 patch for my 20 gauge fusil. Started out with .600 but it was too tight--the .010 and .015 patches I tried couldn't carry enough lube. The .590 needs a short starter to seat flush with the muzzle, then it goes down easy. I think my bore is slightly undersized. Took second place in the smoothbore event at a local match last summer so I know this combination delivers reliable performance.

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5314
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2010, 10:59:24 PM »
Satwel, Your experience parallels mine.  I've decided to do virtually the same thing you describe.  Being new to smoothies entails a LOT of work to get where you need to be.  :o
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline sonny

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2010, 07:28:56 AM »
neat stuff........i ordered a 16 gauge fusil an wondered how accurate they are.The fusil will have a 44" barrel.anybody shoot a 16 gauge for hunting deer or bear? what kind of accuracy are you getting from 16 gauge smoothie???........sonny

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2010, 04:32:56 PM »
Sonny- we've been able to get a couple 20 bores to shoot into 3" at 50 yards - others throw fliers at times, and group 3-4".  I recall getting a 2 1/2" group with Taylor's 10 bore Bess at 50 yards.  Most groups at 100 yards are closer to patterns, but with work, a stiff load and tight patch, you might be able to achieve something like 12" at that range.
At 25 yards, 1" groups can be had from just abotu all smoothies - group sizes are for shooting off sandbags.

Offline sonny

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2010, 05:27:45 PM »
daryl..........anybody shoot the .665/16 gauge ball???.......sonny

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: Round ball diameter for new (to me) NSW .62 cal.English Trade Gun?
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2010, 05:40:52 PM »
16 bore is usually listed as .662" to .663".  A .648" ball would be appropriate for a smooth 16.

16 bore rifles are usually cut with a .675" bore, which is actually in 15 bore specs (.677" actual).  A .648" ball of pure lead is between 405gr. and 412gr. and is a good hunting weight for large game.

Track of the wolf has pure lead balls of many different diameters for sale in 25 'count' bags for testing.  .648" is just one size the sell.