English SxS Shotgun Maker Info Wanted

[Majorjoel]

 Looking at a very high quality 13 guage dbl. shotgun with makers name BURNARD on both lockplates. Gun is percussion with platnum vents and lots of scrollwork engraving. It also sports a silver shield wrist inlay with a lion engraved on it instead of initials. Has it's original ramrod of ebony, horn tipped and a screw off end with ball puller. Condition looks very shootable. Any info on Burnard is most appreciated! Pictures if I make the deal.

[James Rogers]

You sure it's not Burnand? His location was Newcastle upon Tyne from 1800-1840 time frame according to some older info. I have.

[Majorjoel]

James, it may very well be Burnand. The lighting where I examined the piece was pretty dismal.

[James Rogers]

You may want to send a PM to feltwad. He is in the UK and most familiar with 19th century smooth guns and their makers.

[Feltwad]

Just noticed this post will come back with info in a few days  when I have time to go through my research.
Feltwad

[nord]

You may want to check in at <Antiqueguns.com>. Let me know if you have any problems joining as I can expedite the process.

In any case our resident limey is Bill Curtis. Post under shotguns to his attention. He's an acknowledged expert in things British and lives in Wales.

Good luck with your quest.

[Majorjoel]

Thanks Feltwad and Bruce, I ran across this particular piece while actually looking for antique longrifles.  Not really into English Dbl shotguns at the moment. Have owned several over the years and have found them kind of hard to get back what I paid for them. The seller offered to come down to 1100.00 dollars from his original asking price of 1500.00. A nice piece, but still a little steep in my opinion. As everyone around here says.....buy what you like! I'm still in search for my holy grail with a long barrel and a patchbox.

[keweenaw]

Price on a gun like that, not London made, depends a lot on condition and quality.  The prices you've mentioned would be about top end unless the piece is unusually good.  It's essential that you look carefully at the condition of the bores.  You need to have them as clean as you can get them and put a light down there.  Look at any pitted spots and make sure there is no blemish what-so-ever at those locations on the outside of the barrels.  I came very close to buying a beautiful cased Westley Richards that had two little rust spots on the outside of the barrels - typically no big deal. The bores on that gun were nearly perfect except for two pits that exactly matched the spots on the outside of the barrels, where of course the barrels were rusted through.  The dealer who had it got stuck on that piece and still has it a year later.

Tom

[Majorjoel]

Interesting subject Tom, even being a cased set doesn't matter if there are bore issues! When it comes to SxS double percussion shotguns, the going prices have never gone up. I base this observation on my many copies of The Gun Report dated from the late 1960's. About everything else has skyrocketed in price from original German jaegers to some pretty nice Kentucky's which were then selling below a grand.

[Feltwad]

 Richard Burnand was born in 1806 at Newcastle Upon Tyne  Northumberland England.He served his apprenticeship  with the well known gunmaker  John Gardner whose business was located at  Collingwood St ,Newcastle.He came through his apprenticeship and worked for Gardner and later became his foreman and then in 1840 became successor to the business and traded at  11 Pilgrim St Newcastle.
His percussion guns and later his hammer breech loaders were of top quality and equal to the London makers all of his guns were proofed at the London proof house He was also appointed agent to Westley Richards for the sale of his percussion caps and wadding.
I have restored several guns by Richard Burnand most were percussion I also examined a sxs Hammer ejector  breech loader by him which was of top quality.
Most historians of the guntrade have published books that state that the famous gun maker William Greener served part of his apprenticeship with Burnand, this I found with my reseach  is not correct , both Burnand and Greener  were apprentices to John Gardner at the same time, both were the same age and born in 1806. Richard Burnand ceased trading at 23 Pilgrim St  Newcastle in 1879.
Hope this has been of some help
Feltwad

[Majorjoel]

A great big thank you to Feltwad for your info over and above the call of duty!! I will make sure the owner of this shotgun gets a copy. You sir are the best!.........Joel