Author Topic: Soaking flints  (Read 23090 times)

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2010, 05:32:33 PM »
Oiling flints is not "far fetched" and while I have no proof to point to as fact, I'd suspect that the purpose of "oiling" was to help prevent moisture/water from getting into the natural voids and breaking the flint from expansion likely associated with freezing temperatures.  Water expands on solidifying and it is age-old practice in some areas to utilize water expansion to break rock, some places it was done in winter via freeze-expansion, in others it was done via vapor expansion with heat.  Light oils would not offer much or long lasting protection as would be had from a heavier oil.

Oiling of precious stones is done to hide the defects, the purpose is primarily for cosmetics in trying to disguise the quality deficiencies.

As for oil soaking RR's, that's not far fetched either but like many other things, it has been corrupted by bad information.  #1 oil (Kerosene) is worthless and a total waste of time as is the use of Turpentine, mineral spirits and other like solvents because they evaporate relatively quickly and thus provide no benefit whatsoever nor do drying oils or oils such as olive that readily oxidize.  Light petroleum oils are short term only as they will easily migrate via gravity negating the beneficial effects, however, heavier petroleum oil, especially those with cling additives, are very beneficial but only when the wood is properly treated.
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Online rich pierce

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2010, 05:46:22 PM »
They look shinier when wet, that's for sure.
Andover, Vermont

Bentflint

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2010, 05:14:32 AM »
I get my flint wet all the time. Most often while cleaning my gun. It helps get the black stuff off.

Candle Snuffer

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2010, 09:02:20 PM »
I do clean my flint when cleaning my rifle, using water,,, but I can't imagine using an oil based cleaner to clean or even store a flint in as it seems to me that if any remants of oil remained on the flint, the burned powder from the pan would cling to that flint like tar/mud...

Certainly if this practice was under taken - the oil would have to be removed I would sure think - before the flint was used?

brokenflint

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2010, 11:31:19 PM »
I'm soakin my powder in water tonight so it won't accidently fall outta the touch hole if i leave ole frizzie open  ;D

Broke

Offline Canute Rex

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2010, 04:09:55 AM »
I was trying to think how this myth got started, and it occurred to me that it might just be a matter of appearance. People do soak gemstones to hide imperfections. Rock-lockers have been getting oil on flints (accidentally) for a few centuries.  Maybe one of our predecessors saw the smooth-looking result and thought "Hey, all the imperfections went away! This is now a better flint!"* By chance that flint lasted a while, and a legend was born.

*or, perhaps, "Zounds! Ye oile hath takenne away ye imperfectiones! I vouchsafe that thisse flinte doth have greater vertue!"

Mike R

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2010, 03:51:08 PM »
by the way, oiling gemstones is a type of fraud, not an acceptable practice. Unscrupulous dealers will also dye poor colored stones to make them look better. They will fuse a thin layer of gem over glass.  They will color nongem species to look like gems [eg, turquoise]. Buyer beware--deal with respectable gem dealers or know your gems! Gemology is one of my hobbies--an outgrowth of a lifelong rockhound hobby and a geology career, I guess. The only gem that may be helped by immersion in water or oils is the opal--opal is a cousin of flint [maybe that is where the practice started?].   Opal is amorphous SiO2 and flint is cryptocrystalline SiO2 and common quartz is crystalline SiO2.  But opal contains a little water and can dessicate. Opal rough is commonly stored in water.

Offline huntinguy

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2010, 07:41:27 PM »
Mike R, Thanks. I had read in Revolutionary War accounts that the British flint was superior to the American flint. Now I understand why.

Back to the original question.

Guys this is really simple. See the structure of the molecule has some small spaces between the atoms that make up the bonding of what we see as solid form. So what happens is that if you soak the flint in water, eventually water will get in these little pores and  when the flint trikes the frizzen it will steam off some of the water quickly and the very tip of the flint will explode. Just like a river rock set in a fire. This is a way to make a self sharpening flint.

Now, if you soak it in Kerosene. Well those same little spaces get filled with a flammable liquid so, you see, if you have a low quality flint that doesn't spark too well, this works like an added boost to the sparking as a little spark will set off the little trapped pockets of kerosene and they will make fire to compensate for the poor sparking characteristic of low quality flint.

 ;D ::) I missed my calling, I should have gone into pollytics.
Anything worth shooting is worth shooting once.

Leatherbelly

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2010, 04:43:23 AM »
   This calls for a test!

Offline flintriflesmith

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2010, 12:49:43 AM »
This concept of "oiled gun flints" goes back at least to the 18th century! I have found them listed that way in colonial store records.
Gary
Happened across one of the period documents I mentioned in the above post.
This is from a 1765 inventory of a store in Virginia;
___________________________________________

Gun flints      Oiled   2 doz.            3 ½ [d]
 "       "      Common   750   6/ [per 1000]      4/6
________________________________________
3 1/2 [d] is 3 1/2 pence. 6/ is six shillings per 1000 so 4/6 is 4 shillings 6 pence
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Offline Frizzen

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2010, 05:18:22 AM »
You guys are soaking them in the wrong stuff.  Serious flint shooters (Like myself)  soak
them in oil thats been drained from a car after you change oil.  Now you know.
The Pistol Shooter

Mike R

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2010, 03:40:36 PM »
You guys are soaking them in the wrong stuff.  Serious flint shooters (Like myself)  soak
them in oil thats been drained from a car after you change oil.  Now you know.

Gasp! the Gov't classifies that stuff as toxic waste! ::)

Offline t.caster

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2010, 07:55:05 PM »
Maybe soaking them in nitro glycerin.....on second thought they wouldn't last long that way! :o
Tom C.

Offline Mike T

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2010, 08:02:42 PM »
Oiled flints slide off your frizzen faster and increase your lock speed!
Mike T

Dave K

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2010, 10:35:26 PM »
I have been soaking mine and then so my fingers don't smell of kerosene for weeks or paraffin for a fortnight. I pick them out of the jar with a magnet. ;)

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2010, 10:19:52 PM »
Flintriflesmith--any idea of what kind of oil was used for those old Virginia flints?

I am an old, somewhat cynical, engineer with more faith in experience than in laboratory science. Makes me wonder if those old Virginians paid more for oiled flints, might not they actually have worked better?

After all, we shoot these things primarily for fun, but a couple hundred years ago flintlocks were a more serious item.

Also wonder if maybe them there dumb old Indians, who depended upon flint stuff working so they could eat & retain their hair, might haved had actual experience favoring burying flints to "keep them fresh"  Just because the explanation makes no obvious sense to 21st century America does not mean the action is of no value.

Offline Kermit

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2010, 03:01:28 AM »
Soaking flints for flintlocks is possibly akin to polishing gronicles on board a sailing vessel.
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2010, 06:59:59 AM »
What's a gronicle?
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Offline Bill of the 45th

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2010, 07:12:44 AM »
I soak Ice chips in Bourbon, and that works for me. ;D  Then I turn on Outlaw country on Sirius, crack open RCA or Kindig, and relax, and let you guys figure out why they soaked their flints.  Don't get much better than that, except maybe shooting, or being at Dixon's

Bill
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Offline bluenoser

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2010, 07:14:07 AM »
I think it is a point of attachment for your sky hook.   ;D

Mike R

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2010, 03:52:57 PM »
Flintriflesmith--any idea of what kind of oil was used for those old Virginia flints?

I am an old, somewhat cynical, engineer with more faith in experience than in laboratory science. Makes me wonder if those old Virginians paid more for oiled flints, might not they actually have worked better?

After all, we shoot these things primarily for fun, but a couple hundred years ago flintlocks were a more serious item.

Also wonder if maybe them there dumb old Indians, who depended upon flint stuff working so they could eat & retain their hair, might haved had actual experience favoring burying flints to "keep them fresh"  Just because the explanation makes no obvious sense to 21st century America does not mean the action is of no value.

folks in those days also bled each other to cure them...I am sure they found no 'secret' by oiling flints...

Offline flintriflesmith

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2010, 06:47:40 PM »
Flintriflesmith--any idea of what kind of oil was used for those old Virginia flints?
...

No idea what oil they were referring to but their choices did not include modern petroleum based oils like kerosene.

In inventories of the period "sweet oil" can refer to any eatable vegetable oil but usually meant olive oil. Whale oil was the most common animal oil but in America there was also a lot of bear oil being rendered. I don't know anything about fish oils.
Gary
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2010, 05:59:36 PM »
Gronicle discussion, if you really need one...

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?7316-Seized-gronicle

Essentially a nonexistant element on a vessel, one that a newbie is sent in search of. Things like, "I'm all out of gronicle polish. Go see if the quartermaster will give us a fresh tin."

I can see greybeards baiting a fresh recruit with advice about soaking his flints. But with actual original source material...
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

Offline bluenoser

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2010, 10:30:36 PM »
Gronicle discussion, if you really need one...



Aw shucks!!!  You mean Taylor can't hang his sky hook from it??

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Soaking flints
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2010, 10:51:04 PM »
In my search for a Gronicle I looked thru some flintknapping sites.
From Joel/Calgary:
"... concerning both traditional British gunflint manufacture and modern experimental archaeology was that flint fresh-dug from underground (and still damp - saturated/hydrated/whatever) was easier to knap than that which was either surface-collected or dug but stockpiled & dried out. This has been attributed variously to saturation of microfractures and/or micropores and/or to hydration of any residual opaline material. The modern knappers reported that if the flint (nodules, spalls, or preforms) is stored in water after excavation, it continued to knap easier than if allowed to dry. Some may have reported that flint can be rehydrated/resaturated/whatever if soaked long enough, and this is sometimes suggested as a somewhat less effective alternative to heat-treating flint to improve the workability...this is hearsay...I am not a sufficiently skilled knapper to tell the difference, but I have a couple of pails of spalls soaking in the garage...One would not heat-treat flint intended for gunflints, as it would be more fragile. All of this would suggest that fully hydrated/etc. gunflints might actually be somewhat more fragile than dried ones"

This agrees with those Indians who buried their flint "to keep it fresh" So they could sharpen or do whatever to reshape the flint.

It also says that a flintlock shooter would prefer to keep his gunflint dry, rather than wet.

Still doesn't answer what oil might do to a flint. Other than to keep water away. By the way, kerosene can pick up water. I'd switch to an animal or vegetable oil.

Given the paucity of whale oil I might consider Track's Mink Oil, or just plain sweet/olive oil. Whether or not the flint actually sparks better, I will claim, with a serious mien, expertise backed by 18th Century practice!