Iron Mt. rifle trigger guard scrolls

[Dave B]

I ran across what appears to be a restock of a iron mounted rifle that has  the trigger rail scroll reversed (curling towards the triggers). I have seen some rifles with this type of feature being from N Carolina.  Is this a classic feature of rifles from there or do you see others from Tennessee with this also? For those that have seen these are the guards tending to be more slender or are they wider than their northern cousins?  I guess ultimately I ponder the possibility that this rifle is an original barrel restocked with the interpretation of iron hard ware. The guard is wider than what I would normally expect of an Iron guard compared to the examples I have seen up to now. The rail being over a Half inch wide. The style of it is very pleasing and reminds me of the Germanic trigger guard on a fowler in my collection.

Which brings me to another question. Can a person compare the iron mounted rifles in the same way as we do the PA rifles with regard to the wide trigger guards (and butt plates), were of earlier make and the later forms slimmer.

[Dancy]

Some of the Tennessee's also curled forward, most of the Bull's guards were built that way. 1/2" is a wide rail, be great if you were able to post some pictures, these gentlemen could probably give you better information.

Not many early southern iron mounted rifles are known, so they don't tend to be wide butted like the PA guns, however a few SW Va rifles are thought to be early and do have heavy features. The Jos Boggle rifle is thought to be fairly early (1790s?) and from TN, I don't know how wide the butt is.

[G-Man]

Dave - According to Mel's website the buttplate on the famous Joseph Bogle rifle is right around 1 11/16.  The guard is also proportioned relatively large.

The forward curving spur crops up in Tennessee as well as North Carolina.  Sometimes Southwest Virginia guns have the spur pointing down - but offhand I can't think of one I've seen with the real pronounced forward curl, like a Bull or Gillespie rifle, if that is what you are asking.

The surviving earlier guns from the southern Appalachian region (by early in this case mean anything up to around 1815 or so) with iron guards and buttplates did tend to have larger proporations - i.e. wider and taller buttplates with modest curve, usually with a more pronounced heel; and wider triggerguard grip rails,  bows and finials - than the later guns.

Would love to see photos.

Guy

[Dennis Glazener]

The forward curving spur crops up in Tennessee as well as North Carolina.  Sometimes Southwest Virginia guns have the spur pointing down - but offhand I can't think of one I've seen with the real pronounced forward curl, like a Bull or Gillespie rifle, if that is what you are asking.

The surviving earlier guns from the southern Appalachian region (by early in this case mean anything up to around 1815 or so) with iron guards and buttplates did tend to have larger proporations - i.e. wider and taller buttplates with modest curve, usually with a more pronounced heel; and wider triggerguard grip rails,  bows and finials - than the later guns.

Since almost all of the Gillespie makers used the forward curl I keep an eye open for them. Most all that I have seen have been NC guns but I wonder if there SC made rifles that used them. There is a trigger guard sold my several of the supply houses that is called a SC guard and it has the forward curve grip rail very much like the Gillespie's except for the width of the curved part. From memory I think it is over 1 inch wide. Never saw an original gun with this type guard but there might have been some made for someone to reproduce the trigger guard.
Dennis

[Dennis Glazener]

For those that have seen these are the guards tending to be more slender or are they wider than their northern cousins?

The early unsigned Gillespie that I used for the pattern for my Gillespie guard is very slender in all proportions. I actually increased the width in a couple of places to make my copy more robust than what the original guard is. I own a signed twin to that rifle and it is probably an earlier rifle yet the guard on mine is wider than the one on the un-signed rifle.

I think they were made by either two brothers or a brother and his father so I suspect the width/proportions were because of different tastes in what the guard should be. But both have the typical Gillespie re-curved grip rail.
Dennis

[Dave B]

Thanks for the information guys. I was going to see if He would let me take some photos of it for posting here. He is very proud of it for what he quoted for a collection of old parts.

[Ken G]

You see that forward curl show back up some in Soddy guns.  The below picture is from the ALR Library.