Tim Murphy Rifle

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Not to be a pain, or anti VA..   but the versions of the legend all seem to agree on a doublebarreled rifle......So we know there were some swivel breech guns extant..... we also know that the legend was not really published until the 1840's...so looking back with 1840 eyes biased by what was seen from say 1825 on.... what would the population have imagined a doublebarreled rifle looked like...... ?  So Scott, I guess you go with what you think your customer thinks the gun was like, or what you think the populace thought it looked like.........or..... Were it me, unless the customer was against it, and knowing only what I know now I would settle on a swivel breech.......One man's opinion.. hope that's helpful.

[BlackleafHats]

2cents from a non-gun builder... I've been following this thread with great interest, and read all the articles linked. It seems to me that much of the info out there does not agree. One articles states that his name was not even originally murphy while another states his parents by name. It does to me seem like sources agree that there was the existence of a double barreled rifle. Question: Was it the rifle used for the Shot? It seems along with the question "How many licks does it take to get the center of a tootsie pop?" The world may never know!

I'd like to go back to my brother's original question.
I'm wondering what others might envision in his hands on that day?
As someone "who don't know jack about gun building or the different schools" I offer, if he was from the Deleware Water Gap area and moved to the Sunbury area which most sources seem to agree upon. Would it be plausible to look towards the nearest geographical school and the earliest possible guns to spark the imagination which Scotty seems to be asking of us?

My 2 cents
Morgan Shea
Non-gun maker
Wacky Hat Guy

[smshea]

2cents from a non-gun builder... I've been following this thread with great interest, and read all the articles linked. It seems to me that much of the info out there does not agree. One articles states that his name was not even originally murphy while another states his parents by name. It does to me seem like sources agree that there was the existence of a double barreled rifle. Question: Was it the rifle used for the Shot? It seems along with the question "How many licks does it take to get the center of a tootsie pop?" The world may never know!

I'd like to go back to my brother's original question.
I'm wondering what others might envision in his hands on that day?
As someone "who don't know jack about gun building or the different schools" I offer, if he was from the Deleware Water Gap area and moved to the Sunbury area which most sources seem to agree upon. Would it be plausible to look towards the nearest geographical school and the earliest possible guns to spark the imagination which Scotty seems to be asking of us?

My 2 cents
Morgan Shea
Non-gun maker
Wacky Hat Guy

 Hey! Stay out of my brain! Seriously....Well said!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

So the Easton gunbuilder is attributed...but we have none of his guns to look at...seems the double or single isssue is the biggy......legend has it........... wanna fight the legend without hard facts?? 

[Roger Fisher]

So the Easton gunbuilder is attributed...but we have none of his guns to look at...seems the double or single isssue is the biggy......legend has it........... wanna fight the legend without hard facts?? 

I understand that Nicholas Hawk Gilbert, Pa (Northampton County at that time) did build Wenders; but was ol Nicky Hawk working that early?  Dunno!

Not Easton; but not too far n/w of said town!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

A couple of authors attribute the gun to Isaac Worly, riflesmith in Easton, PA

[BlackleafHats]

From the Valley Forge Muster Roll
Additional Remarks (if any):
Born 1751 in Minisink, NJ. Enlisted at age sixteen in July 1775 in Thompson's Pennsylvania Battalion of riflemen, noted for their marksmanship. Became a sergeant in the 12th PA Regiment and was at the battles of Trenton, Princeton, New Brunswick, and Brandywine. Detached with Captain James Parr to Morgan's Rifle Corps. At the Battle of Bemis Heights (Saratoga) in October 1777, Murphy was ordered to pick off key British officers who were reforming an attack. Murphy made the shots and helped the Americans to victory in what is often called the turning point of the war. Murphy then wintered at Valley Forge with Morgan’s Rifle Corps and served with distinction for the remainder of the war. Died in Schoharie County, NY in 1818

Note: This says born in Minisink NJ... that's the first time I've come across the info of him being born on the other side of the river.

And one more article I've not scene on this thread yet.
http://dmna.state.ny.us/historic/articles/murphy.htm
I'm also trying to find any other mention of the mysterious brother mentioned.
The Valley Forge Roll has a couple of John Murphy's listed from PA

[BlackleafHats]

Found mention of both Tim and John from 1775-76 in Lowdon's and Parr's companies.
http://files.usgwarchives.net/pa/northumberland/areahistory/bell0005.txt

[projeeper]

I rember reading about this shot and when the col. hollared who made that shot Murphy in a tree with a Golcher came back.
Campfires of the revolution was the book,it was a very old book when i got it & its in hiding now.

[John Gunshenan]

Here's Tim Murphy's horn ... at the Old Stone Fort in Schoharie...

The curator took photos so we could make a replica:

[smart dog]

Hi,
Here is a different take on Timothy Murphy:
https://allthingsliberty.com/2013/03/the-myth-of-rifleman-timothy-murphy-and-the-power-of-the-written-word/

The "Timothy Murphy" swivel breech rifle in the Old Stone Fort museum in New York is from the 1830s or later and was almost certainly made as a percussion gun.  Sometime later it was converted to flint-percussion conversion.  Murphy died in 1818 and it is unlikely he ever owned the gun but it might have been in his family.  The rifle is pictured below.  Revolution era rifle?

dave

[Dennis Glazener]

I rember reading about this shot and when the col. hollared who made that shot Murphy in a tree with a Golcher came back.
Campfires of the revolution was the book,it was a very old book when i got it & its in hiding now.

Free download here: https://books.google.com/books?id=93uzVqelF34C&pg=PA5&source=kp_read_button
Dennis

[Clint]

I wonder if a double gun might have been used , in difficult shots, as a range finder of sorts. modern rifles are sometimes loaded with tracers and artillery is commonly "walked in" by forward observers. The swivel breach would have given enough information to accuratly place the second shot. The fact that the shot was so celebrated, tells us that it was uncommon and the attempt would be made by someone who had THE rifle and the confidence. Two shots would be a big confidence builder. Just my two cents.

[Hungry Horse]

 Well, since like certain parts of our anatomy, every bodies got one. My opinion leans towards Murphy’s gun being a side-by-side double. My reasoning goes like this. Swivel breech guns were all the rage at the time the details of the event was penned, but not so much when it actually took place. And, few actual survivors of the event were still living when it was penned. Side-by-side double smoothbores were relatively common during the period of the actual event. Common enough that a few Indian trade guns were built in this format, and a gun built with rifled barrels would’nt be a big stretch to imagine. Or, a big engineering project for a competent gunsmith. Another reason for my belief is a Swivel breech would be a two handed process to index the second barrel, while a side-by-side would not. Remember Tim supposedly shot from a perch in a tree. A side-by-side could be fitted with a set of sights on each barrel, sighted in for different ranges making it easier to gauge such a long shot (I know this is also possible on a swivel breech). I also think a double would be less likely wear, and get loose, in a combat situation, than a swivel. Oh, and by the way, there is some evidence that a rifleman named Young actually made the shot rather than Tim Murphy.

  Hungry Horse

  Hungry Horse