Pinned standing breech

[J.D.]

In  the "Short rifle" thread, the question was asked if the standing breech was pinned.

I'm showing my ignorance here, but I am not aware that standing breeches were pinned. Could anyone explain how and why that was done?

Was this a common feature on English pieces, or was it somewhat common on better American pieces too?

Thanks, and God  bless

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

If you look at the picture closely on that thread you can see the pin going through the wood and a small lug on the bottom of the standing breech.

On the Griffin I am building it has this feature and the new breechs from TOW have it as well. The pin helps hold the breech in place along with the tang screw

[Longknife]

JD, I have an original English fowler circa 1810?-that has a pinnned standing breech. It is well made but not a "fancy" piece. No maker on the barrel or lock.. There is a "lug" made onto the bottom of the stranding breech and a pin inserted, it comes out under the lock plate and is just about centered in the oposite panel...Ed

[James Rogers]

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=143&styleId=514&partNum=PLUG-EF-17-3

I am lazy with my dial-up so here is a pic of a repop on the TOW site.

[J.D.]

Thanks everyone. Now that I know what to look for, I can see it clearly.

 I thought I knew something about longrifles and ML guns in general, primarily learned from books, before I began reading the ALR forums, but the more I read and  learn here, the more I have come to realize that I know far less than I though I did...which brings to mind even more questions about things I would have never thought about without the help of the ALR members.

I find that I'm learning something new almost every day...which is a good thing, but tiring for my old brain. 

Thanks much and God bless

[James Rogers]

[James Rogers]

the more I read and  learn here, the more I have come to realize that I know far less than I though I did...which brings to mind even more questions about things I would have never thought about without the help of the ALR members.

I find that I'm learning something new almost every day...which is a good thing, but tiring for my old brain. 

I can only say that goes triple for me!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

its what keeps us young!!

[JTR]

I just plucked a brand new grey hair outta my ear waiting for James picture to load. 

John 

[Dave B]

James thanks for posting the photo.  What are the breach dimensions of that beauty?

[James Rogers]

Dave,
That pic is of a gun someone else had for sale on the site a couple of years ago. I cry every time I think about not being able to buy it at the time. It was English and the furniture, barrel and lock were pre-1728. I believe it was restocked at a later date and at that time received it's standing/hook breech system. These guns get that nice wedge look from the taper,  the big breech being taller than wide after flattening the sides and the standing breech sitting up high with a sighting groove in them.

[Mike Brooks]

These guns get that nice wedge look from the taper,  the big breech being taller than wide after flattening the sides and the standing breech sitting up high with a sighting groove in them.

That's what makes these early English guns so racy. Very hard to reproduce with out a large breech.

[G-Man]

Man - they are sleek aren't they?  Even on a short little piece like that, the fine architecture keeps it from looking clunky. 

That photo does a good job of showing how everything tapers forward and back from the area right behind about where the cock is on the lock.  This is pretty common on Georgian era English guns and something that a lot of the precarved stocks miss.  As Mike pointed out, it is really hard to reproduce it without a big breech. 

[Dave B]

It was a few years ago at the Monroe WA Show that I bumped into a fellow that was packing around a fowler in this same configuration. The breach was massive yet over all it was a light piece comparatively speaking. I measured its breach at slightly over an inch and three sixteenths, it tapered quickly down to the wedding band and a long slender round barrel section.

[G-Man]

Yes - on the fowlers the forward part of the barrels are usually very thin and often have substantial taper and flare - on the Harman fowler, for example, the ID (bore) at the muzzle is wider than the OD of the narrow waist of the barrel, and the breech is very wide and tall. 

The resulting balance on the fowlers is such that they feel to me like they naturally want to swing their muzzles up skyward for wing shooting as you shoulder them - you don't even have to think about lifting it.

Breech size, barrel thickness, and configuration of the flat to round transition on many of the standard reproduction barrels out there today are areas where few makers today really ever truly copy the original's features. 

Guy

[Mike Brooks]

I was bidding on an english wildfowling gun yesterday. Absolutely MASSIVE breech. Probably  1 1/2" with a standing breech The breech rapidly tapered in the first 9" to 12". It had a 47" barrel and was about a 12 bore. I doubt the gun weighed over 9 lbs. Nice simple carving at the breech and some engraving on the standing breech tang, no other decoration. Now brace yourselves........It had a first model Brown bess buttplate!
 Even with the Bess buttplate this was a stunning gun with outstanding English architecture.

[JTR]

Did you win it?
John

[Mike Brooks]

No, I let it go at $2750. It had an ill fitting replacement lock, a spliced forestock and the barrel was probably cut back around 6" or more. Other than that it was perfect!
 I let another go by Sheppard that was a complete restock at $2750 also. A bit much for a restock in my opinion.

[JTR]

  A smart shopper, bidder, knows when to say no!
Now,,, if I could just,,, learn,,, that myself!

John

[Mike Brooks]

  A smart shopper, bidder, knows when to say no!
Now,,, if I could just,,, learn,,, that myself!

John

Had to say no, that was the extent of my stash!