Flints or Caps for squirrel rifle????

[Standing Bear]

I like huntin tree rats, I like shootin em, I don't mind eatin em, it's the cleanin that is a pain so I really don't care if I only get a few w/ the flinter.  Some folks in S AR and NE TX waste a store bought shotgun shell on em then complain if they bite a 7 1/2 shot - go figure.

[Mike R]

Flint; there's a reason the percussion era was so short.

Yes. It is called a cartridge. And not to start another flint is better/worse argument, but there is also a reason flint era ended so abruptly when perc came on the scene.  Audabon saw his first perc gun in New Orleans in ~1830. He wrote that the owner couldn't wait to show him its superiority by immersing the rifle [including lock] in a basin of water and shooting it. Try that with a flintlock.  My point was that the 'golden age' of squirrel rilfes was in the perc era--that is why you see so many original perc Bedfords and Tenn rifles.  I chose a perc to honor that heritage. There were of course flint squirrel rifles, too. So each to his own as my old pappy used to say...

[hanshi]

Flint; there's a reason the percussion era was so short.

Yes. It is called a cartridge. And not to start another flint is better/worse argument, but there is also a reason flint era ended so abruptly when perc came on the scene.  Audabon saw his first perc gun in New Orleans in ~1830. He wrote that the owner couldn't wait to show him its superiority by immersing the rifle [including lock] in a basin of water and shooting it. Try that with a flintlock.  My point was that the 'golden age' of squirrel rilfes was in the perc era--that is why you see so many original perc Bedfords and Tenn rifles.  I chose a perc to honor that heritage. There were of course flint squirrel rifles, too. So each to his own as my old pappy used to say...

I'll fess up; I have (also) a percussion squirrel rifle I like very much  .  As far as the cartridge  era goes, it's just a fad, won't last.  Flint rules with percussion standing by its side with an arm over the shoulder. 

[Leatherbark]

I have an Ohio style 40 in percussion, but i could as well made it as flint. Actually a percussion gun reminds me of my youth as a 30 caliber percussion Honaker rifle is the first muzzleloader i fired way back in 69........So as much as I like my flintlocks I still have a soft spot for a poppergun..........One thing about small game hunting with a flintlock is that it gives you a lot of wet weather flintlock experience that will spill over into your big game flintlock ventures............Bob

[northmn]

The use of a flintlock on small game does give more experience in using a flintlock out in the woods.  This flintlock "snob" shoots them because perecussion guns give me no more satisfaction than a black powder cartridge.  When I hunt with a percussion BP shotgun it is a cartridge gun.  By the way there was a very gradual trasnsition from flint to percussion with Western guns popular in flint into the 1840's.  There was also a gradual transition to cartridge guns with ML's built into the 1870's in the East.  So for me I use a flintlock ML or a black powder cartridge.  Does this "snob" look down on someone that hunts with a percussion gun?  Not really, as we do this for fun and there is no real fun in putting up with something because every one says you ought to do it this way.  I have kicked a lot of percussion shooters butts on the target range when I shot targets and my toughest competition was another flint shooter.  Some percussion shooters kicked my butt on some some some days.  I just personally prefer to mess with a flintlock for hunting squirrels as I really do not feel that I would regret losing a once in a lifetime chance to bag a trophy bull squirrel.

DP   

[Mike R]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/MikeTR/glamons.jpg

this pic of a Smoky Mts hunter is typical of scenes that influenced my early choices for squirrel rifles...

[R.W.D.]

Hey Mike, Great photo. I'll have to save that one.

[R.W.D.]

Your post is an excellent example of what Mike was talking about.  Seems as if there is an attitude that since I do not shoot a flintlock exclusively that there is no way I can be as good a shot, hunter, etc.  I shoot a percussion rifle and no it is not just like a cartridge rifle.

[Daryl]

RWD - don't take that personally - I also shoot caplocks - 14 bore rifle, pair of .58's and like you, I don't consider them to be just like a ctg. gun either.  I do find them easeir to shoot than the cap locks as I constantly have to 'work' on flinching.  They are fun to shoot and are primarily for hunting - however if I want to win a match at a shoot, I use the .69.  It is competitive with iron sighted ctg. guns for accuracy, to about 250yards.  When I shoot for fun - or don't want to be belted with recoil, I shoot my flinters.

[northmn]

I did not say just a cartridge gun, I said a BP cartridge gun.  The double hammer shotguns I use loaded with black powder, are no different to me than a percussion double and I have used both.  The only exception would be in duck hunting as one can reload quicker, but on pheasants and grouse there is little difference.   My Rolling block is very similar to a percusion rifle.  In squirrel rifles, unfortunately, I cannot afford a good single shot in 25-20 that would take BP.   As we are talking squirrel rifles I am not getting into differences in deer rifles.  If you don't like a flintlock shoot a percussion.  You do this for fun anyway.  When some clubs had shoots in my area they dropped the flintlock division, because the flintlock shooters were often beating the percussion shooters anyway.  You do not have to feel that disadvantaged shooting a flintlock nor very smug about it either.  Most of the Golden Age rifles duplicated on this site are from the flint era.  Especially the long rifles.   

DP

[Tim Crosby]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/MikeTR/glamons.jpg

this pic of a Smoky Mts hunter is typical of scenes that influenced my early choices for squirrel rifles...

 That is a neat pic. Note how high he carries his horn and bag and the amount of RR sticking out the end of the stock.

 Tim C.

[J.D.]

Well, I do both. I wear a cap while hunting tree rats with a flint gun. 

God bless

[Old Ford2]

Hey Mike,
Do you think that powder ( in the picture )horn was large enough?
The old fellow certainly would not have tired himself carrying it.
Old Ford
PS. I do like small horns!

[Mike R]

The small horn was typical of late horns used with squirrel rifles--it does not take much of a horn to carry a huge supply of powder for the tiny loads used.  Alot of the so-called original 'priming' horns one sees are really perc era hunting horns for squirrel rifles. I imagine that is his lunch in his left coat pocket?  I have another pic of him standing by his barn door with this rifle.  As a lad I saw men like this in both the Ozarks and Smokies hunting with similar arms.  And NO, caplocks are Not like shooting cartridges, BP or not.  They are Muzzleloaders just like flinters, just a slightly modified ignition. Take a look at all the southern/Tenn rifles and Bedford rifles that were made in caplock and represent the last of the longrifle breed of the "old era" prior to the resurgence of the American rifle in more modern times. I find this time as romantic as the early days.  I have presently ~9 longrifles and all but two are flintlocks.  I rarely shoot the caplocks any more--except during squirrel season, when I pull out the .32 Tenn and remember my youthful infatuation with the old guns of the hills...

[northmn]

Actually I find a Sharps or my RB as historically interesting as any cap lock.  And getting my 45-70 to shoot well was much more challenging than any round ball rifle.  But, that is my opinion and it is based on experiences with both caplocks and BPC.  Like my 16 bore breech loader with hammers.  Its the use of the hammers and the cloud of smoke taht makes it interesting, the loading afterward is not really that which does anything for me.  I have expressd my opinions based on experiences, but I was referred to as one of the "flintlock snobs".  To me the term "snob" is equated with some over dressed woman that brags about buying her clothes at Dalton's when she could get the same thing at Target for less.  My preferences for flintlocks is also based on shooting experiences.  Am I a snob?  I do not feel so as to percussions.  Now I am considering compound bows and modern ML zip guns, but not historical arms.  I have had a lot of good times shooting with people that prefer percussion. I also have  pet percussion rifle I made out of spare parts left over from other builds that has taken deer and won a few matches when I shot it.  Its on its second barrel.  I can appreciate pet rifles and have regretted selling one.  When I recommend a flintlock its based on experiences and my opion of fun, not snobbery or looking down my nose at those that use percussions.  There is an appeal to any of the ML's that can be fun.  I still get more frustrated with a BPC as after years of shooting I can expect any ML to shoot well with a tight ball patch combo and a range of powder charges.  Maybe not its best but pretty good.  A BPC can give you fits with alloys, lube, primers and loading technique.  Again an opinion.

DP

[Mike R]

I am sorry you took the snob comment personal--my comment was not meant for you at all, and I do not remember seeing any snob comment directed at you personally, so I am not sure why you are so defensive about it.  There are no doubt flintlock snobs. My comments were directed at that attitude and not at any individual.  This is a friendly site and I do not want to stir up trouble--so I apologize to any who took this personally.  I also enjoy shooting all kinds of firearms. My pets are also flintlocks. But I am not snobbish about it.

[northmn]

They say that the words make up only about 20% of what we call communication.  The rest is body language and that sort of thing.  I was not hoppin mad but did want determine what was meant.  I can agree that there is a "snobery" in many things.  Some like to make themselves seem elite because of what they do.  Seen it in traditional archers like myself, usually converts from compounds.  I used to see some of that in buckskinners also, kind of soured me on BP shooting matches as they tended to run down shooting over the camping aspects.  As you said its a friendly site and like you I like to keep it that way.  Sorry if I seemed to overreact.

DP

[Waksupi]

I think my preference to the flintlock,  is because it teaches you to be a better shooter.
Now that Jim Chambers has invented the flintlock, ignition is a pretty sure thing, and fast.
Oh, I know some will say the flintlock has been around for awhile, but I do believe Chambers was the one to finally perfect it. 

[northmn]

I think my preference to the flintlock,  is because it teaches you to be a better shooter.
Now that Jim Chambers has invented the flintlock, ignition is a pretty sure thing, and fast.
Oh, I know some will say the flintlock has been around for awhile, but I do believe Chambers was the one to finally perfect it. 

when I shot competition and would sometimes use a percussion, there was little difference in my scores between the two, but I did feel it was due to to shooting the flintlock.  That follow through needed seems to really help.  Due to my lefthand shooting I regret not being able to try some of Chambers other locks except the large Siler.

DP

[Mike R]

"I can agree that there is a "snobery" in many things.  Some like to make themselves seem elite because of what they do."....northmn

Exactly. The worst may be fly fishermen.  Fly fishing is one of my "other" fave hobbies, although now I live far from my beloved trout streams. I have more fine fly rods than fine muzzleloaders. I tie my own flies, etc. But the elitism of many in that sport turns me off. I quit visiting one otherwise fine chat room of fly fishers after uncalled-for vicious verbal attacks on me because I admitted to actually tossing the occasional bass plug with a spinning or casting rod outfit!  Holy Cow!  You'd have thought I was the devil incarnate. But I live on a southern bass lake where fly rods are rarely seen [and draw stares and questions] and plug casting is an old sport.  There are conditions under which the casting rod is better than a fly rod--Whoa, Charlie! That kinda comment brought a worse reaction than saying a caplock is faster than a flinter!  There is a type of mental myopia associated with fanatics of any activity...

[Daryl]

To be a better shot with a rifle, merely shoot a flint smothbore with ball for a while, against fint and percussion rifles.  You tend to hold more accurately and follow through better when you go back shooting the rifle.