Short barrelled fullstocks?

[Skychief]

Historically, how short of a barrel is appropriate in a fullstocked flinter?

I am leaning toward building a fullstock flinter with a Douglas barrel I bought.  The barrel is 32 caliber, 13/16", 42".   

I wish the rifle to be lighter in weight, but, don't want to shorten the barrel beyond historical correctness (if possible).

Any suggestions about the balance of the described barrel at different lengths appreciated also.

Thanks a lot, Skychief.

[stuart cee dub]

Skychief, IMHO short fullstocks never really look right maybe jaegers but that is stretching it .
Maybe just make it a halfstock and don't tell anyone what you're up to .
I promise I will not say a word 

[Long John]

It is my considered opinion that anything I can't rest my chin on is too short.  Being 6' 1" that means I like them with a 47 inch barrel.

If you are trying to make a rifle that has historical roots then the length is going to be determined by the gun that is serving as the model.  There is a real nice Dickert rifle with a 38 inch barrel.  Most ran some where around 39 to 44 inches.  Shorter rifles are a little less forgiving in my view.  They have more stringent needs for precision in loading and less rotational inertia making them harder to keep in target.  Longer rifles are much less convenient in a tree stand!  I think you need to have a candid conversation with the fellow looking back at you in the mirror about what you want to do with the rifle.  Form should follow function.  What you want to do with it will dictate what weight, length you want as well as caliber.

I don't like to see folks loading those short, runty guns because they seem to encourage the shooter lean over the rifle as they are loading it.  NOT GOOD in my opinion.  But I'm from New Jersy so what do I know?

Best Regards,

JMC

[frogwalking]

My most recent build has a 38 inch bbl, 40 cal 7/8 inch across flats and full stock.  Maybe I looked at it too long while building, but it looks ok to me, shoots well and weighs in at just under 8 pounds.  I also have a .32 with a 42 inch 13/16 bbl.  Also shoots well but is $#*! for heavy.  It looks good on t he wall, where is usually stays when I take the lighter one out for a walk.  I am too old to give a @!*% if others think the brrel on my rifle is too short.  I am the old guy who has to carry it.   Of course, this is just my  own opinion, and every one has one of those.

[smallpatch]

Skychief,

I am just finishing up one of Chamber's English Gentlemen's Rifles.  It has a swamped 30" barrel, and as far as I know is historically correct.  Look at some photos of English game guns, and you'll find a lot in this ballpark.  They make great little brush guns.  So I guess I'm saying..... they were out there.  Maybe not so much in this country, but who's to say it couldn't have been brought over on the boat??  Hope this helps.

[Skychief]

  I also have a .32 with a 42 inch 13/16 bbl.  Also shoots well but is $#*! for heavy. 

Frogwalking, do you know the  actual weight for this rifle? 

I can only imagine it is very muzzle heavy as well.   Correct?


Thanks, Skychief.

[northmn]

I built this little 25 with a 36 inch barrel.  Some of what you ask is personal taste.  I did so because the weight was a bit heavy even for a 3/4 inch barrel at 42 inch.  Also the rifle is to be used to hunt with and not for shooting matches.  One thing on a shorter rifle is that you need to also used a little shorter thimbles and nosecap and also you may want to use a little shorter forestock at say 11 inches insteasd of 12".  I converted a 42 inch 32 to a 40 for the reason Frogwalking mentioned.  The second one is a rifle I built for my wife.  While I do not get too excited about showing it off and just presenting it to show a shorter barreled rifle of that type, it has a 32 inch barrel and performed very well for her.  Too well at times from the ribbing I got when she won more than I did.  Take or leave it.

DP

[Skychief]

Northmn...thanks for the information and pictures.   You mentioned elsewhere that a small lock is a good idea for a slim rifle.   Understood.   You also mentioned that the web should be no larger than 3/16".   What is the "web" please?

Thanks for your help, Skychief.

[smart dog]

Hi Skychief,
Your question cannot be answered because you haven't mentioned what kind of rifle you want to build.  Do you want a "longrifle"?  If so use a long barrel and accept the weight.  There were many fullstocked flint rifles that had very short barrels.  European gunsmiths made them all the time.  Even American longrifle makers sometimes used barrels <42 inches.  I just did a quick scan and found 15 rifles featured in RCA volume 1 with barrels >37 inches and <42 inches.  My advice is to make the gun with a barrel length that works for you and if you are a gunsmith with at least a modicum of design ability, you will be able to scale the dimensions to make the gun look slim, long, and pleasing.  It takes tremendous knowledge, experience, attention to detail, and skill to produce a "bench" copy of an old gun (note I don't write "original" gun because all guns made by members of this forum are originals in some respect).  However, in my opinion, the test of a good gunsmith is defining function and then fitting a form that knocks your socks off. 

dave   

dave

[Stophel]

This one's about 16 inches!

www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Original%20Flintlocks/1830Stutzen

Ok, the lock was originally flint and much older (no bridle, and unfortunately, some hack seriously screwed up the tumbler with a through bolt to hold the hammer on), but the gun was likely built as percussion.

[frogwalking]

Hey Skychief,

The 38 inch X 7/8 inch barreled .40 weighs 8 pounds 12 oz.  It is heavier than I had thought but I had never actually weighed it before.  It balances at the rear barrel attachment pin, only a few inches ahead of where I hold the fore-end.  I am not sure what constitutes good balance, but it does feel a little muzzle heavy.  T his seems to make it hold fairly  steady.  I am mainly a pistol shooter and not that good of a rifle shot anyway.

Frog

[Roger Fisher]

Northmn...thanks for the information and pictures.   You mentioned elsewhere that a small lock is a good idea for a slim rifle.   Understood.   You also mentioned that the web should be no larger than 3/16".   What is the "web" please?

Thanks for your help, Skychief.

Web= the wood 'tween' the bottom flat of the barrel and the rod groove.  Can be reduced by rattailing  the groove somewhat!

[northmn]

Teh web also includes the distance between the bottom of the barrel and the top of the entrance to the ramrod hole if already drilled as in a precarved.  A 7/8 40 maight be a little heavier than your 32 but not by much.  Also remember when building that a 32 is a very tight fit with a 5/16 ramrod.  I drilled mine with a 1/4 inch drill.  The actual size ramrod that fits best would be about 9/32 or a small 5/16.  A 1/4 inch ramrod hole does help somewhat in slimming a rifle but can be more tricky as the drills may want to wander more than larger stiffer bit.  I had to accomodate my 25 for a double set trigger system as they were very common in  a poor boy, whcih also added a little thickness to the rifle but not a lot. 

DP

[J.D.]

Another thought for a slim rifle. Be sure the measure the thickness of the stock under the ramrod hole. Some precarves have as much as 1/2" of wood under the RR hole, and that is waaaaayyyy too much wood to leave on the forestock.

I saw a really nice rifle in the judging at Dixon's last year that left most of the wood under the RR hole. The workmanship on the rifle was fairly good, but the extra wood made it look heavy and clunky, in addition to being mention slab sided.

God bless

[Skychief]

Hey Skychief,

The 38 inch X 7/8 inch barreled .40 weighs 8 pounds 12 oz.  It is heavier than I had thought but I had never actually weighed it before.  It balances at the rear barrel attachment pin, only a few inches ahead of where I hold the fore-end.  I am not sure what constitutes good balance, but it does feel a little muzzle heavy.  T his seems to make it hold fairly  steady.  I am mainly a pistol shooter and not that good of a rifle shot anyway.

Frog

Frogwalkng, thanks,but, i was asking the weight of the 32 caliber with the 42" by 13/16" barrel.

[Gunnermike]

Green Mountain barrel (out of stock) on Track: barrel, .32 caliber, 13/16" octagon, 42", 1-48" twist, 5.45 lb, crowned, 9/16-18 thread;  AKA - boat anchor.
Mike

[northmn]

A 7/8" 42 45 is listed at 5.5 so a 40 would be a little heftier.  Outside diameter adds more weight thatn some think. 

DP

[frogwalking]

Skychief,

Sorry about that.  The .32 weighs 9 pounds, 7 ounces.  The stock is a little too chunky as I made it when I was young, and knew everything.  Yours will almost certainly be lighter.  I really thought it was heavier.  It balances at the lower ramrod thimble.  It is built on an old Dixie Lancaster precarve stock.

[frogwalking]

Note:  In buying a barrel from TOW:  They often have in stock barrels not listed in their catalog, or on line.  They did not have my .40 x 7/8 x 42 listed but had them in stock.  Give them a call and ask.