Flemish knives.

[beleg2]

How common were Flemish knives in USA?
Some writer consider the Flemish knife as the predecessor of the knives used in the Rio de la Plata area before 1790.
Considering the Spanish influence in north America there have to be some old reference.
According to the same writer Flemish knives also influence British knives.
Just thought some may have some information.
Thank you very much.
Martin

[Artificer]

That would be really hard to answer and would depend on the time period.  Probably more so in the 17th century and prior to when the English closed up the North American continent in the 18th century from Dutch trading.  But, the Dutch got in a lot of trading during our Revolution including all kinds of weapons.  I could be entirely wrong in my assumption that most Flemish knives, as an import item, would have come from the Dutch traders, though.

Gus

[beleg2]

Thank you very much Gus.
I just remember that Manhattan was a Dutch colony.
I have read that many Flemish knives were found digging the Thames.

Thanks
Martin

[Artificer]

I have read that many Flemish knives were found digging the Thames.

Thanks
Martin

That makes sense as the English were a bit behind the times in the manufacture of blades for swords and knives until the 17th century and there was a great stir about German blades being so much better in 1783 it caused a rather large ruckus and investigation in Sheffield and Birmingham.   

In the latter part of the 17th century, a group of swordsmiths from Solingen (Germany) broke their guild oaths by taking their sword-making secrets with them to Shotley Bridge, County Durham in England.  German Solingen blades were also preferred for many swords, including many of the Scottish Highland basket hilted broad and back swords of the 17th and 18th century. 

Though I have a lot of really good reference books on swords, and to a lesser extent knives, I honestly don't know that much about Flemish swords and knives.  Something I should probably investigate more. 

Gus

[smart dog]

Martin,
When referring to Flemish knives are you thinking of Ballock and Dungeon knives?  Both were predecessors of the Scottish dirk and popular in England, northern Europe and possibly Spain (because of Spain's connections with the Catholic lowlands which became Belgium) during the late 16th and early 17th centuries.  I am sure some of them found their way to North America.  The English sometimes referred to Ballock knives as "kidney knives".

dave

[Luke MacGillie]

By Flemmish I was assuming you meant a Sheepsfoot blade?  Ive seen a number recovered from Iroquois sites, and not just 17th Century.

[beleg2]

Hi,
The Flemish knives I'm talking about have single edge slim blades and long slender handle.
Much like the knife on the left of the picture:


According the Domenech, Flemish knifemakers emigrate to Solingen in 1250 and in 1500, due to religion pressure migrate to Sheffield.

I ask here because the same author have the theory that Flemish knives were the origin primitive Bowie knives .

Thanks for your answers.
Martin

[dannybb55]

p 58 in the 1703 edition of Joseph Moxon's Mechanick Exercises states at the top of the page:" The Flemish-steel is made in Germany, in the Country of Stiermark and in the Land of Luyeck; From thence brought to Colen ( Koln ?) and is brought down the River Rhine to Dort, and other parts of Holland and Flanders, some in Bars and some in Gads, and is therefore called Gad-steel. It is a tough sort of Steel, and the only steel us'd for Watch-springs. It is also good for Punches; File-cutters also use it to make their Chissels of, with which they cut their files. It breaks with a fine Grain, works well at the Forge, and will take a welding heat."                                                       
This sounds like a blister steel with the carbon content about the same as a water hardening spring steel. It would make a tough blade and could be forged thin and whet thinner.