Author Topic: "Rifle Culture"  (Read 8603 times)

Offline flintriflesmith

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"Rifle Culture"
« on: July 15, 2010, 07:12:07 PM »
Whether we are talking about hunting shirts or what kind of firearm was carried there is often a mention that certain areas were where the "rifle culture" can be identified. In Virginia we tend to think of this as originating in the area west of the Blue Ridge or even west of the Valley of Virginia. In the mid-18th century this region was all part of Augusta County and extended into what are now the states of KY, OH, etc.
The population was largely Scotts-Irish (Using that term in its most general meaning) and Germanic. Many of the settlers moved there because of the availability of relatively cheap land. The economy based largely on farming.
When I ran across this letter, written by an Englishman traveling down the Ohio River in 1820, I thought it gave an intersting look at the mindset of the region's residents:

April 18th. Between Wheeling and Marietta, there is little worthy of the traveller's attention, except the mounds and fortifications on Mr. Tomlinson's farm at Grave Creek.
19th. Marietta is beautifully situated at the mouth of the Muskingum river, and has an appearance of neatness and regularity, which is not usual in the villages of the country.
We have just passed the Muskingum Island, and already the country seems to be much less mountainous though not less romantic. The prospect immediately below this island, is singularly picturesque and characteristic. The river, making a long stretch to the west, affords an uninterrupted view for several miles. On one side are seen several log-houses, surrounded by newly cleared fields, exhibiting the first stage of improvement; a little further on, a neat brick-house, with a numerous collection of fruit trees, just putting forth their blossoms, indicate a more advanced state of civilization, and mark the residence of a wealthier or more industrious citizen….
To-day our boat struck on a sand-bar, through the carelessness of the captain, who was asleep in the cabin. The boatmen jumped into the water with great alacrity, and attempted to "heave her off;" but being unable to effect it, we were obliged to procure a flat boat, to lighten, and hands to assist us. These were
readily and cheerfully furnished in the neighbourhood, and we suffered no other inconvenience than that of a few hours' detention. In the meanwhile, I took my fowling-piece, and scoured the forest on the Virginia side of the river. After shooting some squirrels, which were very abundant, I stopped at a farm house, where I was hospitably received. My arrival had been foretold, not like that of Fitz-James, by a "minstrel old and gray," but by the good man of the house, who said he had heard the report of a shot gun in the woods, and knew there were strangers about. He eyed my piece with a good deal of contempt, and wondered at my using it in preference to a rifle. Throughout the west, the fowling-piece is viewed rather as a toy for children than as a weapon for man. Hunting is here, as Scot describes it to have been among the ancient Highlanders, "Mimicry of noble war." The people scorn a weapon less deadly than the rifle, and practice has made them remarkably expert in the use of this national arm. "Luck's like a shot-gun, mighty uncertain," is a common saying, and indeed the poor shot-gun is a standing but for ridicule, and a common subject of comparison with every thing that is insignificant.

I'd be interested in reading any other accounts along these lines.
Gary
"If you accept your thoughts as facts, then you will no longer be looking for new information, because you assume that you have all the answers."
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Offline G-Man

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2010, 07:28:20 PM »
Gary - I will have to dig up a period description I found of an Indian raid on a cabin on the Holston or perhaps over in Wallen's Valley - I forget which.  Anyway, it describes there being "five rifles well loaded" in the cabin which was occupied only by a man and his wife at the time.

Guy

Offline WElliott

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2010, 07:34:56 PM »
What? Guy, eminent scholars tell us firearms were exceedingly rare in pioneer days.  Could one cabin have held five??   ;)
Wayne Elliott

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2010, 08:06:09 PM »
I believe that the eminent scholar referred to has since been completely repudiated... his Bancroft Prize revoked and has lost his job as a tenured professor of history - all because the egregious falsifications in his work seriously offended a review panel of academic historians (all or nearly all of whom agreed with his anti-gun agenda). It took a long time, and they were very hesitant to chastise one of their own, but in the end "peer review" did work.

The published even recalled the book although another edition, by a tiny far-left house, has since come out. I've never even heard of a publisher doing this before so it was a major embarrassment.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 08:09:08 PM by JV Puleo »

Offline G-Man

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2010, 08:17:17 PM »
 ;)

I don't think they could have been too scarce.  I think Harriet Simpson Arnow wrote something in "Seedtime on the Cumberland" to the effect that for a while in Middle Tennessee in the 1780s, men were dying on such a regular basis that if one needed a rifle, one would  be available before long....

I always wondered about the incident when Boone rescued his daughter and the Callaway girls - the Indians left behind "two small shotguns" which they (Boone's party) "broke up as useless".  Presumably the Indians wouldn't have been carrying them if they were inoperable, and I also can't imagine settlers in 1770s Kentucky throwing away useful weapons if they were in dire need of guns.  Perhaps they broke them apart for parts and split them up as "booty".  

This sort of overlaps to our discussion of Joseph Bogle a few weeks back.  Where he moved to was pretty isolated in the 1780s and it's unlikely that he had the number of customers that Jacob Dickert had in Lancaster PA in the same era, and he certainly worked in a very different environment.   The first thing he probably thought about each morning was whether today was the day Bob Benge or Doublehead were outside waiting with a Chickamauga war party for him to unbar the cabin door; second thing was probably looking to his corn crop and animals, putting something on the table for the day, etc.   Most people probably moved into the area armed.  So demand (and his output) once he was in Tennessee was probably pretty small in the settlement era, but if you did happen to need one made, he could and did make them.  I also wonder about how much interaction and trade, repair work etc. these guys carried on with the Native population, which they were in close proximity to.

Getting back to Gary's topic  - I will try to find the reference and post the link - this is an interesting topic and I don't mean to drift off topic.


Guy

« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 08:20:10 PM by Guy Montfort »

Mike R

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2010, 09:32:09 PM »
Read Schoolcraft's journal of his travels in the Ozarks [early 1800s] for similar statement about shotgun vs rifle in the backwoods.

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2010, 09:35:52 PM »
Boone used a long fowler loaded with buck & ball at the battle of blue Licks. According to Nathan he had several guns.
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jwh1947

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2010, 01:08:50 AM »
Rifle culture???  Several concepts/cognates that come to mind today are: 1.) Remnant of aging population that remembers reading James F. Cooper prior to TV's, and then weaned off that only to catch Disney's "Davy Crockett" full force on the tube.

Some still alive  from this generation, but less every day.  Like the Shakers, they are dying out.  The few children they do have often vary waywardly from the path of rifle righteousness, given more to more physical and cerebral ventures that yield satisfaction, as they define it.  

Add to this a distinctly conservative, Republican bent, as well as homespun, fer-sure, down-home religion, and there you have the rifle culture.  "God, Guns and Guts" last time I saw the bumper sticker.  I'm not making this up.  Many residents of urban areas over 2.5 million dismiss it entirely, and Mensa members and National Academy of Science associates are in a distinct minority.

2.) I constantly engage younger people of all educational and socio-economic levels in discussions and move them toward explaining to me what they see as important.  I am comforted to hear much from optimists, those who would work for a better world, but two things are usually absent from the discussion...1) Joining organizations, especially do-good ones like the Jaycees, the Masons, and the Church, and 2.) collecting things, other than money and software.  So there is one observer's honest reaction. 

Herein lies the fear factor of speculating on high end guns of any kind.  Looking at the demographics, the market just ain't going to be there.  Spend wisely and conservatively.  This from conservative PA, home of blood-lust deer hunters, collectors and auctioneers.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 01:23:16 AM by jwh1947 »

Offline Artificer

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 01:31:31 AM »
In 1971 when I went through Marine Corps boot camp, most every recruit had at least fired a .22, if not a shotgun.  When I returned to Edson Range 17 years later, almost no recruit had even fired a BB gun.  Gun Safety was much more required than it had ever been. 

While we may debate on the Gulf and Afghanistan wars, at least a whole new generation of people now have a great deal of gun experience.  At least this should be a good thing for the shooting sports for some time.

Gus

RifleBarrelGun

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2010, 02:16:00 AM »

Recalling the first "rifle culture" in America-- the Delaware and Shawnee nations.

Edward Shippen to Govr Robert Hunter Morris,  Lancaster  24 April 1756:
"...The Indians make use of rifled guns for the most part, and there is such a difference between these sort of Guns and smooth bored, that if I was in an engagement with the savages, I would rather stand my chance with one of the former sort, which might require a minute to clean, load, and discharge, than to be possessed with a smooth bored gun which I could discharge three times in ye same space, for at 150 yards distance, with the one, I can put a ball within a foot or six inches of ye mark, whereas with the other, I can seldom or ever hit the board of two feet wide and six feet long... I cannot say I have been pleased with ye sight of any of the guns which have been carryed through this Borough for the service of the province."

Offline Elnathan

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2010, 03:36:49 AM »
Remember that Cooper has Hawkey express derision for the smoothbore many times in his tales, a pretty good indication of what Cooper thought to be a typical attitude on the frontier based on what he heard around him in the 1820s and 30s.
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2010, 03:53:00 AM »
Remember that Cooper has Hawkey express derision for the smoothbore many times in his tales, a pretty good indication of what Cooper thought to be a typical attitude on the frontier based on what he heard around him in the 1820s and 30s.

True, kinda.  If we use his informants as any measure of rifle culture, the fact that not a one told him about the whole Stockbridge and move to Wisconsin thing, well whats someone from New yawk or Taxichuttits know about rifles ;D

jwh1947

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2010, 04:49:41 AM »
Let me speak of experiences from my youth.  I had to give a speech in POD class in 11th grade (1962).  I brought in a Trapdoor, a Krag and an M1 and talked about the evolution from single shot to semi-auto.  The rifles were passed around class for close examination by all the boys and girls.  Afterward, the student teacher, Mr. Cassel, mentioned that he was getting married and needed money, and that he had a Model 12 Winchester, field 12 ga., that he wanted to sell for $40.  He said if I brought my dad with me that he'd sell it to me, so dad accompanied me to the  school the next day and I bought the shotgun from my teacher. 

Compare that to today's school environment.

Also, for 90 cents, we could buy a box of Super X .22's.  Every Saturday we went to the Bethlehem Steel Co. slag dump and shot rats.  Some were huge, and the most recent winner of the "Biggy Rat" award had bragging rights for the entire week.  One gal named Lynn was the best shot of all, which did not sit well with us guys.  We once tried  to screw up her sight zero, but she used nail-polish to mark the right setting in an unobtrusive manner and outfoxed us. 

Incidentally, we had plenty of fist fights but never ever thought of using a firearm in the heat of anger or other emotionally charged moments.  It would have been out of the question, simply inappropriate. Yes, the culture has shifted.




Offline Karl Kunkel

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2010, 06:02:59 AM »
Excerpt from David Dixon's book "Never Come to Peace Again, Pontiac's Uprising and the Fate of the British Empire in North America"

Colonel John Armstrong, a Pennsylvania militia commander, arrived at Carlisle and found "the state of the frontier . . .already thrown into great confusion & difficulty," as horror-stricken pioneers poured into town from their abandoned homesteads.  These petrified farmers were no match for the stealthy war parties scouring the woods in search of defenseless frontier settlers.  Contrary to the popular image of the stalwart frontiersman dressed in buckskin, defending his log cabin with his trusty long rifle, many of the inhabitants living on the border were unarmed.  During the French and Indian War the Anglican missionary Thomas Barton traversed the back country and noted that "not a Man in Ten is able to purchase a Gun.  Not a House in Twenty has a Door with either a Lock or Bolt to it." 

Colonel James Burd of the Pennsylvania militia arrived in the frontier community of Northampton to find the tiny village with only four muskets, three of them unfit for service.

Colonel Armstrong, hoping to stem the tide of refugees streaming into Carlisle, complained "ammunition is greatly wanted throughout the county".

It seems time, location and vocation played a part in the rifle culture.
Kunk

Offline Dphariss

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2010, 03:26:39 AM »
Excerpt from David Dixon's book "Never Come to Peace Again, Pontiac's Uprising and the Fate of the British Empire in North America"

Colonel John Armstrong, a Pennsylvania militia commander, arrived at Carlisle and found "the state of the frontier . . .already thrown into great confusion & difficulty," as horror-stricken pioneers poured into town from their abandoned homesteads.  These petrified farmers were no match for the stealthy war parties scouring the woods in search of defenseless frontier settlers.  Contrary to the popular image of the stalwart frontiersman dressed in buckskin, defending his log cabin with his trusty long rifle, many of the inhabitants living on the border were unarmed.  During the French and Indian War the Anglican missionary Thomas Barton traversed the back country and noted that "not a Man in Ten is able to purchase a Gun.  Not a House in Twenty has a Door with either a Lock or Bolt to it." 

Colonel James Burd of the Pennsylvania militia arrived in the frontier community of Northampton to find the tiny village with only four muskets, three of them unfit for service.

Colonel Armstrong, hoping to stem the tide of refugees streaming into Carlisle, complained "ammunition is greatly wanted throughout the county".

It seems time, location and vocation played a part in the rifle culture.
People running for safety was pretty much par for the course on the frontier. Trying to defend one isolated cabin from a war party was simply suicide unless there were a number of shooters present which was not often the case and its not a good idea even then if there is another option. So buckskin clad and/or rifle armed it makes no difference, you have to retreat to a defensible place. In this paragraph Dixon sounds more like someone with an axe to grind than someone reporting events.

No firearms is Northhampton?
I guess they thought they were "safe".
Given Dad's experience in the last Federal Homesteading in AK its not surprising at all. The human animal is often notoriously stupid and many could not feed themselves with it if the HAD a good rifle. Going to a the frontier unarmed is one of those Darwin award things. Makes it really difficult to feed oneself unless you want to eat your breeding stock. I guess if you have a freshened cow you would still have butter to cook with. This report makes no sense to me in this context, I think something is missing here. Maybe the Col was only counting arms in Northhampton HE thought were suitable for military service?

Ammunition was often in short supply it would seem. The amount of powder needed to feed oneself is different than the amount needed for repelling attacks by humans.

Dan
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Offline bgf

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2010, 04:56:27 AM »
Going to the frontier without a gun and good supply of ammunition does sound stupid.  The men under Sevier and Shelby at King's Mountain were obviously well-armed and supplied with powder and balls despite having been mustered quickly :).   Most of them were likely farmers also, at least a good deal of the time, but from that encounter and others, we can judge that they were not prone to be either terror-stricken or defenseless.  The trend at this time seems to be not just to censure events and actions in the past which one finds disagreeable, but to rewrite history shamelessly in the fashion of the day omitting and recasting details to please the popular sensibility.  That of course, is not new, but we have have seen it taken to the extreme. 

Offline Karl Kunkel

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Re: "Rifle Culture"
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2010, 05:13:42 AM »
Not defending Dixon, just sharing from a book I was reading on the plane on the way home.  My point was that the rifle culture was fluid and may have changed with geographic location, time period as well as ways and means.  Dixon describes these refugees in Carlisle as recent immigrants and former indentured servants who were tillers of the soil.  They had retreated from the frontier west and north of Carlisle.

Of course there were rifles in the region.  Jim Smith and the "Black Boys of Cumberland County" resided west of Shippensburg, while that area was still part of Cumberland.
Kunk