Author Topic: sharon barrels  (Read 9501 times)

Offline cahil_2

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sharon barrels
« on: July 25, 2010, 04:08:29 PM »
Yesterday I bought a TC Hawken with a 20 ga Sharon barrel on it.  Does anybody know anything about Sharon making these, or is it just a one of a kind.  It  is Octagon to round. 

northmn

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2010, 04:23:04 PM »
Sharon was a barrel maker sometime in the 1980's?   I remember them and they made pretty good barrels.  They were one of the first to advertise no runnout.  Their quality was probably in line with the modern Green Mountain barrel.  TC barrel replacements go way back, and due to the 15/16 diameter breech,  they probably were made for that purpose.  Most 20's back then were 1" breeched for the NWTG which became very popular for a while.  Check and see if the underlug is similar.  Sorry I cannot remember if it was a common offering.

DP

Offline Ben I. Voss

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2010, 04:38:52 PM »
I went and found my old Sharon catalog from 1978 and they list item number 3121: "20 gauge shotgun barrel kit converts a thompson/center hawken rifle into a dual purpose weapon. 28" octagon to round barrel, breech plug, rib, underlug, ferrules and front sight.    $55.00"  So, what you have was a standard catalog offering, cool. By the way, their cut rifled 42" swamped barrels, from .45 to .62 cal. were just $82.50 back in 1978!

Daryl

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2010, 06:14:34 PM »
I stood in Hall Sharon's shop and watched them 'deep button rifling' barrels for a time, back in 1975. It was interesting to say the least.  The most exciting barrels were the ones that exploaded in front of the button.

I was the barrel on my .32 Tenn. rifle is a Sharon barrel, however it is cut rifled, not buttoned.

northmn

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2010, 06:48:10 PM »
For a while they button rifled barrels 40 cal and under as small bores do not need the depth of the larger bores.  The barrel maker for my lates 33 barrel mentioned that and my Rayel 25 is more shallo than a large bore.  There may have been a transition period.  It was 1978 then.  Aging myself for remembering something.

DP

Offline JCKelly

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2010, 07:31:23 PM »
I recall that Sharon made their barrels out of cold drawn, leaded, resulfurized, rephosporized screw stock, AISI 12L14. This machines beautifully but has all the strength and toughness of a good sharp cheddar cheese.
I might suggest that is why Daryl found the most exiting barrels to be "the ones that exploaded in front of the button".

This is a metallurgist's viewpoint. I understand that those with less technical backgrounds will dispute it vigorously.


Offline oldiemkr

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2010, 03:03:01 AM »
Id like to know a bit more of the barrels "that exploded in front of the button". there had to be a reason. I'd think 12l14 would bulge before it exploded but maybe there is more to it.

I can't argue the "metallurgist's viewpoint" but if it was no stronger than cheddar cheese there would not be so many old grey muzzleloader enthusiasts around. A large part of todays barrels are 12L14 and I've shot many and stood around firing lines with many being touched off.

My 1974 or so Sharon Hawken remains one of my best shooters after thousands of shots. I'd like to get one of those 20 ga. barrels if anyone has one.

I agree it does machine nice. I used to drill small hydraulic cylinders out of 12L14 and the cylinder bore only needed a small amount of honing to bring it to mirror finish. Never had a failure either that I knew of and they were often over pressure.

Daryl

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2010, 04:48:32 AM »
All I know about the 'exploading' barrels, is the that some did, and those that didn't, were sold.  It was specified the reason for some exloading was the attemp he as making was to deep-button a barrel.  Buttoning stops around .005"- apparently, and attempting .008" or more was too much.  I do remember the concrete floor (I think it was concrete) shaking  vibrating as the  button was pulled thorugh.
The interiors were wonky - tight/loose/tight/loose - you could really feel it on a patch shove or pulled through the barrel and looking through one at a light bulb would give you a headache.

Offline cahil_2

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2010, 04:59:58 AM »
to oldiemkr:  I do have one and I just listed it on ebay.  Take a look. I have it listed for $300.00.  Too much?

Offline T*O*F

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2010, 06:09:19 AM »
Quote
I have it listed for $300.00.  Too much?
I just sold one with a new breechplug and shipping included.  Too little?

I've got another one, but it's going to be offered soon with a cherry stock, lock choice, and hardware choice.
Dave Kanger

A dedicated person with just a pocketknife can accomplish more than a lazy person with an entire toolbox.

northmn

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2010, 02:16:08 PM »
Sharon barrels were considered good barrels.  In quality about like Green Mountain today as far as their niche.  Douglas quit making ML barrels shortly after they started up due to lack of sales.  We have had the debate about the use of machineable steels before and basically those barrels using it have stood up to some pretty heavy shooting tests.   Sharon did not last very long as they had some financial problems which I suspect was due to the amount of demand for their product.  One of our gripes with Green Mountain is that they have been supplying barrels for CF use and backed off on making barrels for ML's  Just recently I noticed Colerain has started supplying straight barrels in common configuraions such as a 13/16 45 or 40.

DP 

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2010, 02:38:39 PM »
I bought TOF's barrel. (BTW, you should have received notice of payment) Did it because I built a rifle on a Sharon barrel I bought off the internet maybe 10 years ago for $175 (no breech plug) and it shoots fine. Bore is smooth and I can shoot it all day without wiping between shots. Need to spend a little more time working up loads, but it shoots into a little over an inch at 50 yards now. With open sights and my old eyes, that isn't bad.

Also asked about Sharon barrels on the old ALR board when I bought it and IIRC, the consensus was that the cut rifled barrels (45 and larger) were good, but the smaller button rifled barrels could be iffy.

I also like the way they handle the transition from octagon to round on these O/R barrels. But no, I won't be bidding $300 for one. Hope you do get it, though.

Dale H

Levy

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2010, 05:15:07 PM »
I bought one of Sharon's 20 ga barrel kits for my old TC Hawken (ca 1973) and still have it.  It seemed to work just fine.  I soldered the underrib and pipes on and the underlug was soldered on too (I guess due to the barrel's thin walls).

James Levy

Offline JCKelly

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2010, 06:28:08 PM »
Douglas stopped making barrels in 1985. Coincidentally that was when they settled an expensive lawsuit by a former plumber who lost most of his hand, to a barrel that had been nicely proofed by the gunmaker. Although it was not part of the suit, I saw evidence of a large pre-existing crack from the barrel surface maybe 1/8' or so in.
Douglas does not like me very much.
I shook hands, sort of, with that ex-plumber. I reciprocate D's feelings.
In the early-mid 1980's I was looking for data on 12L14. Called Bethlehem Steel's Homer Research Laboratory (they still had one) and spoke with a metallurgist. I did not want to blind-side him, so I told him the reason I wanted this toughness data was that some people made rifle barrels of 12L14.

All I heard on the phone was laughter.
Yeah. You might say that he didn't seem to think it a great idea.
The reason Bet'lm Steel had this data was, is, because bars of 12L14 tend to crack when cold drawn. Since all machining bars are finished by cold drawing, this was a serious financial problem.
IF a 12L14 barrel has no flaws in it, one may load very heavy loads of black in it.
If.
Some bars have  flaws. And some shooters are human, and occasionally err. The worst error, except modern powder, is to load the ball off the powder. Combine that error with the occasional flaw, and with 12L14's lack of toughness and one ends up with less than ten fingers.

The first blown barrel I looked at had some brownish stuff smeared on the fragments. That used to be the draftsmans thumb. Impressed me.

I know full well that this discussion impresses none.
 
I mean no personal disrespect when I say that I simply cannot make degreed  and experienced metallurgical enginers out of anyone no matter how much time I put into it. Took me a college degree & several decades experience (yeah, that includes mistakes. One learns from them) 

Pedersoli makes the best quality muzzle loading barrels of anyone today, at least in their Frontier model flintlock rifle. It is a LOW sulphur. LOW phosphorus, LEAD Free steel that has been heat treated for strength and toughness. Italian specification is C40.  Caywood barrels are gun barrel quality (GBC is not so impressive as it sounds) 1137Modified, blanks being made for modern shotguns. I shoot a Pedersoli Northwest gun, a  Caywood French Type D trade gun and a Caywood Southern mountain rifle, barrel supposedly of 8620. Also have a Pedersoli (Dixie) Jaeger. My arm will no longer permit me to hold the longer Frontier rifle well.

Once again, I expect agreement from no one.  But if you notice me quietly behind a tree whilst you are firing your 12L14 barrel I hope you will understand.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2010, 08:30:36 PM »
Quote
I bought TOF's barrel. (BTW, you should have received notice of payment)

Dale,
Two boxes are in the mail already.
Dave Kanger

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northmn

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2010, 09:09:23 PM »
JC, I think probably the issue is that most ML barrels are fairly overbuilt with fairly thick walls.  If a professional metalurgist tells me that 1137 is safer I do tend to believe him.  Green Mountain claims 1137 as their steel.  I was not aware of the reason Douglas got out of ML barrels, but the lawsuit makes sense.  What was Douglas made out of?  I ahd seen tons of them shot and no problems, even with their runout at the breech, which in a 13/16 45 seemed to me to be an unsafe situation.  While I ahve heard about the praises of particular barrels through the years, as far as accuracy and quality I always felt you could throw a Green River, a MOntana, a Sharon and a Douglas in a barrel and pick one out blindfolded and have the same results,  Throw in a Green Mountain also.  I had shot them all.

DP

Offline JCKelly

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Re: sharon barrels
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2010, 01:24:08 AM »
Never heard a complaint about Douglas' accuracy.

My point is steel toughness, or lack thereof. Usually measured by Foot-Pounds of energy absorbed in a Charpy V-notch test. In a simple tensile test the stuff also has very low ductility, particularly across the grain where it is most needed. LaSalle Steel Co. data for three heats shows 6 to 11% elongation across the grain for the three heats tested.

To quote LaSalle:
. . .The impact energy, as measured by the Charpy test, is given as a function of the test temperature . At low temperatures, the impact energy was found to be very low, less than 5 ft-lb (6.8 Joules), and the transition temperature . . . higher than 70°F (21.1°C)   
Translation: this steel, as do  others, becomes brittle from cold.  “Cold” to 12L14   is room temperature.

It should be understood that LA-LED® has low impact properties with wide scatter as measured by the Charpy test, and users should be aware of this fact. . . if impact or shock loading is anticipated, particularly at low ambient temperatures (i.e., an American’s idea of room temperature, or below) this aspect of design and material selection should be considered . . .

LA-LED is LaSalle's trade name for 12L14.

Douglas muzzle=loading barrels, specifically the several I looked at, were 12L14. They got the octagon shape by cold drawing an octagon. They wereshipped in this heavily the cold-drawn condition.  Exception being some made for, I think, Golden Age Arms some decades ago which had been stress relieved, somewhere around 1200F. These were black as-shipped.

You all will be pleased to know I'm weary of discussing this now. Perhaps next year I'll mention it again... for now, back to more pleasant subjects such as gunmakers and shooting smoothbore guns.