Opinions needed (I know everyone has one!)

[Dennis Glazener]

I am building my first .32 caliber and just drilled the touch hole and its just 2 or 3 thousandths off the breech plug. Too close (I think) for a white lighting liner. I guess I could pull the breech plug and put a 1/4" one in. Then run a tap into make sure the threads are clear but wouldn't that leave a pocket for fouling to collect in (part of the inside cone of the liner would be behind the breech face)? I guess I will have to do with just a plain vent hole and hope it doesn't hang fire or am I missing something? I used to use plain vent holes all the time but when my .54 kept mis-firing or hand firing I started using white lighting liner and have gotten spoiled to them.
Dennis

[Bill of the 45th]

Dennis, I would get it to test fire state With just a touch hole, and then give it a 20 shot test (the minimum I would try for confidence)  Then you can either leave it as is, or get one of those  internal coning tools that someone on this site is making, or go with the 1/4" white lightening with a notch in the breach plug.  By the way the smooth rifle is coming along, I'm trying rust bluing on the the smooth rifle, but haven't decided on whether to do the barrel.  I'll take it to Dixon's for advice   If I stay with the rust blue it will be very stealthy, as the blue is almost black.

Bill

[Birddog6]

You don't say what size hole you have drilled.  If it is a 1/16", just buy one of the lil coning tools & cone the inside of the barrel  with it, then take a dremel & cut a lil channel in the breechplug face & go on.  May not be how you wanted it, but it will work.  Personally I don't like the breechplug & vent liner threads to intersect, but allot of guy build them that way.

Another option is to counterbore it from the outside. I have a John Bivins rifle that he did that way. Counterbored & then has a 1/16" hole on into the barrel.

Keith Lisle

[tallbear]

Dennis
I know this has been argued before on here but you could notch the breech plug .I did that on my hunting rifle a bunch of years ago.After shooting and hunting with it it for five years I pulled the plug to see if it was causing a problem.The knotch was almost as shiny as the day i did it.

Mitch

[Dave B]

I ran across a description from and old German text that described a process of using a small chisel to slowly work around the touch hole. Knocking off a few thousands around the internal rim until you have progressively opened up the internal holes diameter. The use of a counter bore then is used under tension to open it up further from the inside and remove the ribbing cause by the chisel work. A gun maker at the CLA show was describing this process that he had modified by using a dental bit in his Dremmel tool rolling it around in an arch to open up the internal cone and knock down the ribbed section. I like the Idea of the counter bore my self. It would seem to be much smoother. I have breache original barrels to find the plug face notched to allow for the touch hole to be at the face of the plug. I dont see any problem with it my self. I have one that I did just that on and used a home made stainless liner just like HH uses in APV building a KY rifle.  I even used the Tapping cream Herschel talked about.  I drilled and tapped the hole with the pug in place then backed out the pug and ground out the notch then rounded and polished the "V" groove portion bright. Replacing the plug  then seating the touch hole liner. I also made sure to ball bore the inside of the vent liner in its fully seated position with out the breach plug in  to make sure the liner was flush with the bore and nicely rounded over at the entry point to the barrel.  It worked sweetly.

[jwh1947]

I'm not promoting it, just reporting on reality.  I have pulled more than one period original breech plug that has been notched.

Likewise, I have found more than one front lock bolt that has been notched on the bottom due to appearance in the ram rod channel.  

Some of the old pros faced the same issues.  

[billd]

Notch it.

Bill

[wvmtnman]

I did that one time.  I ended up getting one of those metal grinding bits for a drimmel tool and enlarged the hole, working towards the muzzle.  I did this until it was almost the diameter of the drill bit I was going to use.  Next, I used a counter sink to round the hole so that the bit would go where it wanted it to, then drilled.  It turned out great.
   It took a lot of work but in the end it was worth it.
                                                             Brian

[Steve Bookout]

Notch it, Dennis.  It dosen't have to be a crater, just enough to let you slip by.  Cheers, Bookie

[frogwalking]

I have wanted to ask this, and now is the chance.............Why do we not drill through the left side of the barrel, opposite the touch hole, counter drill on into the touch hole, then tap and plug the left side hole?  In anticipation of the response, how does this make the barrel any weaker than a drum installed in a caplock? 

Just wondered.

Frog

[Dave B]

Frog,
 that is exactly how some of the patent flint breaches were done. They drilled from the opposite side then plugged the hole with a flush screw. They drilled a powder chamber back into the cross channel from the face of he breach plug. You could do the same with a regular barrel and plug arrangement but why do it if you are going to be able to make it work with a normal approach.

[Sam Everly]

Dennis, a couple of times i have put the plug in the lathe and used a 1/2" ball end mill and put a cup about 1/8" deep in the face .I then milled a slot just big enough in dia. to clear the threads to meet the cup. If you try to drill down the face of the plug when in the barrel, well sometimes it ain't pretty.I  found out many years ago and had a 3/8" hole that started out a 1/4" one! They never gave a problem, they even seem to work pretty dang good like that . If you just cut a notch some times it will just push crud down in the liner . This way the face of the plug is not above or up in the liner . The cup moves the face of the plug back, like the liner was moved forward to correct everything! I made the cup dia. just a few thousands less than bore size, so the .32 would be around .300 to be safe. You don't want to go all the way to the threads with the cup dia. That is a whole nuther problem !!!                     

[Dphariss]

I have wanted to ask this, and now is the chance.............Why do we not drill through the left side of the barrel, opposite the touch hole, counter drill on into the touch hole, then tap and plug the left side hole?  In anticipation of the response, how does this make the barrel any weaker than a drum installed in a caplock? 

Just wondered.

Frog

Its OK for a patent breech like a Nock. But I would not do it in a barrel. Pointless.
I don't do drum and nipple guns either.
Dan

[Gene Carrell]

I finished  a rifle from a Chambers  kit last year and found it necessary to file  a notch on the face of the breech plug. I've pulled the plug once and could see no reason to be concerned  in the future.

[roundball]

Threads like these are really helpful to me.....every time I even flirt with the idea of building one, a thread like this reminds me of my station in life, which is:

"do you prefer cashier's check or money order"

 

[Dennis Glazener]

Thanks, some good suggestions.
I think I will fire the rifle to see how it works with the drilled flash hole. If it doesn't ignite right then I will put in a 1/4" white lighting liner.

I don't see coning the inside of the flash hole with a dremel tool since to me a liner would be easier (remember this is .32 caliber) and I wouldn't have to make or buy the bit. If I do as Sam suggests I can move the breech face back enough to clear the edge of the cone in the liner. I think I will pull the breech plug put the liner in, if necessary run a tap in to make sure the threads are clear of the liner.

Am I missing anything?
Dennis

[Larry Luck]

Dennis,

I think Keith Lisle's suggestion is a good one, if the rifle doesn't fire well as is.

Larry Luck

[Swampwalker]

Dennis;
I don't think it was mentioned, but you could also move the touchhole forward slightly to give yourself enough room for the 1/4 inch liner.  You might have to reshape the pan slightly to make it look ok, but from an ignition point of view, there won't be any problem.  This would avoid the issue of notching or interferance with the breechplug.

[Dennis Glazener]

I had thought of that but was thinking it was to far to move but come to think of it it should only be an 1/8 inch less what ever clearance I have now (from breech).
I hope to take it out Friday and see how it shoots as is.
Dennis

Dennis;
I don't think it was mentioned, but you could also move the touchhole forward slightly to give yourself enough room for the 1/4 inch liner.  You might have to reshape the pan slightly to make it look ok, but from an ignition point of view, there won't be any problem.  This would avoid the issue of notching or interferance with the breechplug.

[Dennis Glazener]

Took the half finished .32 to the range this morning.The only balls I had were .298 so I dug up some .020 pillow ticking patch material and tried it with 20 grains of Goex 3F. Loaded perfectly. First shot pan/main charge perfect. Shot was 2 inches low at 25 yards.

2nd attempt 2 failures to flash pan, then flash pan but not main charge, next attempt rifle fired but hang fire.

3rd through 5th shots were similar to above! One thing I noticed was after firing the pan looked wet, dried it out before next shot but the 3F seemed damp. I tried priming with 2F from another can, same thing.

I wonder if bringing the powder from my cool basement, riding to range in the cool truck then trying to fire it in 100 degree 95 percent humidity was more the problem than the drilled vent hole! So I am not sure I tested much. I will wait until it cools off some and try again.
Dennis

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

It all turns to soup here in GA in the summer!!

[northmn]

I have almost always notched the face of breech plugs as the ignition is supposedly better off the bottom of the charge.  It also makes for better lock geometry when monted to the barrel.  There have been times when I ahve also made touch hole liners and drilled them off center to accomodate certain mishaps.  I used to make a little change doing this and properly locating touch holes on some production guns that had them close to the bottom of the touch hole.  On my 25 I used a 10-32 stainless screw to make a liner and drilled it out with a wire gauge at one size less than 1/16.  It works very well.

DP

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I have almost always notched the face of breech plugs as the ignition is supposedly better off the bottom of the charge.  It also makes for better lock geometry when monted to the barrel.  There have been times when I ahve also made touch hole liners and drilled them off center to accomodate certain mishaps.  I used to make a little change doing this and properly locating touch holes on some production guns that had them close to the bottom of the touch hole.  On my 25 I used a 10-32 stainless screw to make a liner and drilled it out with a wire gauge at one size less than 1/16.  It works very well.

DP

DP, How does it improve lock geometry??

[northmn]

I mean the position of the lock in relation to the barrel.  Somewhere I was told that that the back of the fence should be even with the back of the breech.  Don't have a good close up handy, but generally when someone uses a 3/4" plug and adds an 1/8 inch for a vent insert they get a lock a little too far forward.  Nothing to do with the locks function, just looks, sorry.

DP

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

OK, glad we clarified.

BTW on originals, some had the fence at the breech and others had it forward of that by varying amounts.  I have a rifle with a Chambers Round faced English lock that lines up perfectly. I have another with a Wilson Trade Lock from Caywood that you couldn't get that far back without hitching a trailer to the butt.  I like the looks at the breech but it really doesn't  matter unless you are copying a particular gun and then I guess it would be best to position it as the original builder did..........