Help with my carving

[DrRed]

Here is the carving behind the rear pipe.



 The only molding I've done is cutting in veins and some rounding.
Is this enough or should I do more. This is my first carved gun and I'm pretty happy so far but I'm not so sure about the molding of the carving and could use some help and advice.

Here is the tang molding.


Patchbox side.



Finally please critique the drawing for the carving behind the cheek piece. It's based on RCA vol2 #94.




I'm reasonably happy with the incised volute in front of the patchbox but not so happy with the one on the cheekpiece side. I'm tempted to try and rasp it off and do it again. I think I would have enough wood. I do plan to cut some molding on the cheekpiece itself.

Thanks in advance.

Bob

[rich pierce]

This is coming along nicely. From the pictures I think maybe the carving is a little flat and so in cross section is like a plateau with a steep fall to the plains below.  It might be better if it is higher in the middle of a lobe, such as at the end of the tang carving, than it is 3/4 of the way to the edge.

here's a Schroyer-based rifle by Jim Kibler that you could study.  Pictures are dark but if you save them you can brighten them up.
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/02/jim-kibler.html

[Mark Elliott]

It think it looks very good for a first effort.   The only problem I see is that the relief carving behind the rear thimble and tang seems to have edges that are a little too rounded, at least for this stage in the carving.   The moulding lines look sharp so I am not sure why the other carving is rounded off.    Did you take sandpaper to the relief carvings behind the tang and rear pipe?   

As Rich said, a little modeling could help, but don't overdo it.   My problem is that I get too ambitious for my skills.    I think nice sharp, crisp carving with just a couple of incised embellishments is just fine for this stage in your carving.

I like the drawing behind the cheek piece.   Just make sure your lines are nice and sharp, just as sharp as your tools, so that you have good lines to follow.

Mark E.

[RobertS]

I can't offer any constructive advice, but it looks quite nice to me!

[DrRed]

Rich: the pictures help a lot. Beautiful rifle.
Mark:no sandpaper but I did round some of the edges with my scraper as I felt the sharp edges looked too stark.

I , too, don't want to try beyond my ability so I plan to go slowly.

Bob

[bgf]

I think I agree on the tang carving being too flat (although if I had done it I would be ecstatic:)) -- it looks incised at first in the light you used to photograph it, and I had to stare at it for a while to make it look relief-carved.  I carved a toothpick once, so take this as "viewer feedback", not technical criticism:). 

[smylee grouch]

Hi Dr Red: You shur have a nice gun going there, any chance you could make the patch box lid a little more tappered to the front? Maybe someone else has an opinion on this but it looks just a little too wide in the front.     Gary

[Jim Kibler]

Dr. Red,

Don't be afraid to slightly hollow out some areas of the carving.  The "wings" of the fleur de lis are typically slighly hollowed.  This in conjunction with the incised lines create a pretty nice effect.  A suggestion for the butstock carving...  Break the design down into individual elements when designing and evaluating it.  The major element of this carving  is a large C-scoll.  Look at it's shape.  It's stretched out vertically and is a little off in terms of shape.  When drawing, work out the major elements or backbones of the carving design first and then fill in the details.  Your execution looks pretty nice,  a little work on the design and you'll be of and running!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

NOt sure, but what you may not like aboout the volute in front of the cheek pice is that it is shorter from front to back than the one on the patchbox side...you may be able to fix just the back end to get it right....that being said it looks too big in comparison to the front volute behind the cheekpiece to my eye...but I don't have a picture of the original to go by......

[Tom Currie]

I have a few thoughts for you. And a rough redraw to explain my thoughts. I think the curve that comes close to the cheekpiece edge should be somewhat more paralel to the cheek edge and this also allows a less abrupt turn into the front lower volute. I think that transition is a bit abrupt on your drawing.   I also took a little off the top of the main curve as I think this fits the area better framed by the cheekpiece edge. The overall effect is a more uniformly arced main scroll. I also tightened up the volute coil just a bit as I like them that way 

I like your effort so far . Well on your way to a nice build.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Take a look at this Chuck Edwards rifle on the Blog.. he has similar volutes before and behind the cheekpiece

[Jim Kibler]

I could be wrong, but I think the above rifle is by Chuck Edwards.

[Joey R]

Yep! That's a Chuck Edwards rifle.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

You are right..too much multi-tasking!! 

[smallpatch]

Dr Red.

Just a suggestion.... part of the reason that the C -scroll looks cramped up, is that there just isn't much space between the rear of the cheekpiece and the buttplate.  Kind of like trying to put 10 lbs of dirt in a 5 lb bag.

Maybe by shortening up the cheek piece, you could open that area up a bit, and make more room for the carving???

[DrRed]

Thanks to all of you for your replies. I'm truly impressed that so many talented people are willing to take the time and effort to help a beginner.  Studying Jim Kibler's rifles have helped me a lot and gives me a pretty good idea of what I need to do on the rearpipe and tang Fleur's. What absolutely gorgeous work you do Jim!  I'll also work on the suggestions for the drawing behind the cheekpiece before I start carving there.

Bob

[Pete G.]

I agree with moving the rear of the cheekpiece forward. If your carving is longer than it is tall it helps the look of the rifle tremendously, since the rifle itself is longer than it is tall. It will also give you a little more room so that your carving doesn't appear to be cramped. Study pics of old cheekpieces and you will see. You're going to like this rifle when you get through. The first carved rifle is special.