What makes a great rifle?

[bgf]

Here's my try: Clarity of purpose and integrity of form and function.  Decoration for the sake of showing off is a risky thing, but if a master craftsman uses ornamentation, it will look like it belongs there (it does) and not be questioned.  A simple, singular piercing in a patchbox can have much more meaning and effect than one with so many that it looks like lace.  Skill is necessary, but it will show up no matter what the level of ornamentation.

Smallpatch mentioned "elegant simplicity", which is similar to what came to my mind when the question arose "simplex munditiis", the phrase Horace uses to describe the charm of a pretty girl.  Scholars argue about the exact meaning, but pretty much any interpretation will work.  A rifle (or gun) either has "it" or it doesn't.

One of my favorite guns lately is Mike Brooks' "Crispin's Liberty" (hope I got that right), which has few of the features I usually like and most of the ones I don't, but I love it anyway.  Some of my least favorite rifles are ones closest to ones I like in concept, but which don't carry through.

[Majorjoel]

So far you fella's have summed up a great list to determine greatness among the contemporary. There are a lot of really great rifles made in our time by many builders among the ALR membership. When it comes to a rifle with spirit, nothing can truly capture it better than the originals themselves!  Imagine a rifle that was made by a man who was born before Washington was president! A rifle that has been handed down from father to son for generations. Lasting throughout the entire history of our great country! Now retired from the battles and the hunt, set aside for viewing and study. Wow, now that makes for a great rifle!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

So far you fella's have summed up a great list to determine greatness among the contemporary. There are a lot of really great rifles made in our time by many builders among the ALR membership. When it comes to a rifle with spirit, nothing can truly capture it better than the originals themselves!  Imagine a rifle that was made by a man who was born before Washington was president! A rifle that has been handed down from father to son for generations. Lasting throughout the entire history of our great country! Now retired from the battles and the hunt, set aside for viewing and study. Wow, now that makes for a great rifle!

Phew at first I thought you were talking about Roger Fisher...................................    

[dogcreek]

Good lines, correct for the school. A first-rate lock. An accurate barrel. Beautiful  wood, something to admire when hunting is slow or anytime you pick up the rifle. Great carving. Silver-wire inlay. And, of course, good craftsmanship.

[Mike Brooks]

Shootability has little to do with it for me in an antique rifle. I have seen many a killer 18th century fowling gun and when shouldered it is about as ill fitting as it can be. For me that is no distraction to the WOW factor of the gun. On the other hand, a new made gun better handle pretty well....

[whitebear]

It should have quality parts but the MOST important thing to me is the rifle should reflect the loving care that the builder puts into the gun.  If you look at a gun and can see the pride that was put into every fiber of wood that was removed, every stroke of the file, every rub of the finish then you are seeing a great gun. If it has nice inlays, carving, and engraving, maybe some wire inlay that is all well and good but a plane po-boy with good lines and showing pride in craftsmanship in best for me.

[Jim Kibler]

So what makes up this soul or mystical quality spoken of?  Surely it can be pulled apart and understand at least to some degree, can't it?

[Robby]

Thats a tough one Jim. We don't even know what a human soul is, though I remember back in the 50's some researchers in Sweden weighed a dying man, and came up with a figure, as the soul departed. I don't remember how much it was, but it wasn't much. Probably a gun is the same, in that we give it more weight than actually possesses, emotionally that is. Maybe a starting point.
Robby

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

It's plain that "great" is different for each of us, though there are elements that we agree upon.  First there is an overall impression which piques your interest.  Then careful examination, even though merely images and not the actual object, can confirm or reject - can increase or decrease that emotional response.  At the end we are left with a feeling or impression.  The whole experience is the ride...not just the arrival.

[smylee grouch]

Sometimes you have to consider what you will be doing with the gun, targets,hunting,what type of hunting, or just hanging on thr wall. Where I live and hunt for instance, we get in and out of our hunting rigs alot and then make short drives and then go to another local for the same thing. For this type of hunting I would say a shorter manuverable gun, Jagger,English sporter, etc. would make a great gun, but when I go for an evening sit or morning stand I like my full length heavey cal. longer range guns. All those things about fit,finish,correct lines,good parts corectly fitted,etc. would still apply though.      Gary

[bgf]

This is going to be really off the wall, but here goes.  Let us suppose that I for some reason am able to cook side by side with a great chef (I do make some good chili making his signature dish.  Even if I did everything exactly like he does it, the two dishes will not be the same.  Mine may be good, but it won't be great.  Training is a part of this, but I would submit that the bigger factor is simply the individual doing the cooking -- i.e., I wouldn't have the same life experience, cultural background, or passion for the task.  I can cook his dish until I've literally perfected every step, and his will still be a tiny bit better. 

Likewise, I think it is the gunsmith that makes a great rifle by infusing the practical object with his unique set of skills and aesthetic judgments, i.e., expressing his vision of a rifle.  How else can we find that great rifles appear in every variety, slender and sturdy, grandly elegant and plain?

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Face it guys, it is the mystery and romance!! I think some is the historical authenticity, some is sculpture, some is fine function/accuracy.  Some is just the fantasy that like a beautiful woman on your arm you are more than who you really think you are......  Sorta like owning a Mustang!!

There is a lot of research that shows that what men and women find beautiful/attractive about each other is how we look during the most fertile times of our lives............... Now with regard to guns, I am sure Dr Freud would have something related to say?? 

[jwh1947]

Doc...fertility...imagine that? 

The gun that has classic architecture, works for your needs, and was fun to build is a worthy thing. 

[rich pierce]

I think there are different definitions of "great" at work here.  I am primarily thinking of originals, others are thinking of contemporary working guns, etc.

Then there is "that's a great rifle" meaning really fine, versus, "that's a great rifle meaning "I'll remember that one; I'll think about it, I'll go over it and enjoy this and that about it.  I've seen plenty of rifles that are generally of that style, some really fine ones, but this one is stands out."

I'll blaspheme here and say there are some Becks and Schroyers and Dickerts that are not great in my eye, although I esteem them because of their place in history and who made them.

To get at "soul", why are some songs great and some not?  They are unforgettable, but why?  They are coherent, but also have a "catch", something special that sticks.  It might be the lyrics you remember, it might be the tune of the chorus, it might be the bridge, the bass line or a guitar solo.  A great song may have lots of memorable and outstanding features, but the greatest will have a number of memorable features.  The parts have to work together.  Same may be true for great rifles.

[ChipK]

One that is made by a good friend, fits a school or persona that you planned, one that shoots straight is kind to flints and just excites you every time you see it.

A great rifle is one that you never would consider getting rid of and spend sleepless nights wondering whose name should sit next to it in your will.

But most of all the one that you hand just reaches for when you open the safe and allows you to relive great memories once your fingers touch it.

[Mike Brooks]

So what makes up this soul or mystical quality spoken of?  Surely it can be pulled apart and understand at least to some degree, can't it?

Well I can't explain soul, But I can point out who has it and who doesn't. I'll give you a short list of those who build soul into their guns in no particular order. EK has to be one of the best in this ability. H. House, C. Edwards, Efremko has had alot of soul in his French guns lately. A. Martin, J. Brennan, M. Silver, Ken Netting. There are others of course, but these are the ones that pop into my head with little effort. I don't get out much, so there is probably alot of good work I haven't seen. Anyway, These guys got it, what ever "it" is.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

It may just boil down to the effect that the rifle has on you.  Yes, that effect is influenced by all of the features and nuances that add up and finally reach the great level. 

[J. Talbert]

Believeability is a major component for me.  Don't ask me to define it, but its's gotta be there.
The whole package has to be right; starting with architecture and including craftsmanship, carving and engraving that are all in balance, such that, adding or removing anything would detract from the overall piece.

Jeff

[smart dog]

I don't think anyone can accurately define "soul" because like "great" it has different meanings depending on the person.  To me it is just another way of saying that a gun moves you emotionally.   Based on some of the work of gunmakers mentioned by Mike B., I think one kind of emotional appeal is that a gun with "soul" seems to tell a story about the hand of its maker.  It is obviously not machine made with machine precision and lifeless conformity.  It is Wabi Sabi because it shows the imperfections of any human endeavor and there is a feeling of the passage of time (and I don't mean artificial aging).  In the case of long rifles, you feel like the gun could be from the 18th or 19th century because it screams out at you that a man made this, not a machine. It is the product of inspiration not a blueprint. 

However, having said all that, to me a gun with "soul" is not necessarily great.  A gun still has to function properly as a tool and show superior workmanship.  Moreover, to me a "great" gun does not necessarily have to appeal to me, just convey an intended emotion.  Some "great" guns made by the makers that Mike B. listed do not appeal to me but that does not affect my opinion that some of them are "great" guns.   

dave   

[smylee grouch]

It almost seems as if this topic is one of those that comes along in a blue moon. It seems as though every one has an opinion and every one is right in a certain way. We cant say that we have reached an inpass but the discussion could go on for a long long time. It still is good to see all the different ideas that are thrown out there. Beats TV and listening to everyones take on Chelseys big day.    Best wishes     Gary

[SPG]

Gentlemen,

Functional artforms need to function. My first requirement is that the rifle really shoots well; everything else comes after. Not that I don't like good looking rifles...I do. But the best looking rifle that you can't hit anything with is simply a wall-hanger. There are more than a few things that contribute to accurate shooting and they need to be right or the rifle is basically useless for it's ultimate intended purpose.

Just my thoughts...

Steve

[Jim Kibler]

Here's my thoughts.  Some of these have already been mentioned of course. 

Functionality:  A proper design for it's intended function.

Succesful design of individual components or features.  Some of these include:
     architecture
     hardware
     carving
     inlays
     engraving

Harmony of design:  An overall design concept in which each element works well with the others and the end result is something more than the sum of the individual pieces.

"Soul":  I believe we should be able to understand this at least a little.  I'm certain there is no recipe for it, but I also don't believe it's some mystical attribute that can't be understood to some degree.  I believe a large part of this is the surface finish of a rifle.  Important elements would include:
     Texture (tool marks, pitting, dents and dings etc.)
     Color  ( individual elements and a scheme that works well together.  This would also include 
               variations and contrasts in color such as what results from patination of wood and metal parts)   
Imagine a rifle in which was designed and constructed superbly, but was finished in a very sterile fashion.  Now imagine the same rifle with some of the elements mentioned above.  What I'm getting at is the importance of finish in the appeal of a rifle.  I'm not saying that a gun which is highly finished and lacks some of these characteristics can't be great, but what I am saying is that I believe much of what we associate with "soul" is in these elements.  Something to ponder...  Is perfection the enemy of "soul" in a rifle?

For me a great rifle does cause a different emotional response than others.  Everything around sort of fades away to some degree and my focus is on the gun.  I get the feeling I can't take it all in.  Instead an overall impression or feeling is created.  I have to force myself to reconize and study individual details.  It is afterall each of these individual details and how they work together that create the final product.

If we want to keep getting better I think we need to continue askig ourselves questions such as this.

     

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Excellent input and admonishment Jim. 

Perhaps their is someting in the "Soul" related to "being used" or even something akin to earthiness??

[bigbat]

If a piece has heart and soul than it is a great piece.  Design and execution of that design as well as the finishing touches dictate the story that a great piece will convey to its owner.  To me how it shoots has little to do with the equation. After all, "all you need is one good shooter"  Its the feeling the owner/customer/builder gets when he or she is making "visual love" to the piece in question.  To me in this modern day of plastic junk, its heartwarming and refreshing to see a handmade, heartfelt object that has soul. Not only the soul of the builder but a soul that carries and reflects items from long ago with historical attachments. Items that when you hold them in your hands or lay them across your lap they "take you back to those daring days of yesteryear as the Lone Ranger rides again"

When I lived in Alaska I frequented Jud Brennans shop frequently ,in a conversation one time he said, "A man who is happy with a Thompson Center is a lucky man indeed, For he can be made happy, get a "great shooter" and not spend much money" I have thought about that many times over the past 18 years and it still rings of comon sense.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

[Robby]

Jim, Based on your criteria, and I'm not disagreeing with you, I have seen two on the contemporary makers blog site lately that would fill that bill, for me at least. Mike Gahagan's Bucks county gun, and Birddog6's Tennessee mountain Rifle. There are others of late, but I don't want to diminish the term "GREAT", is that possible, does quantity water down greatness, I don't think so, but many would argue that point.
Robby