Cold bluing

[rich pierce]

I'm leaning toward bluing the barrel on my RCA 19 project.  I just have a devil of a time with rust in St. Louis in the summer, and blued finishes are not rare on early Germanic rifles.  Looking for a cold blue as I cannot charcoal blue it- I have a lot of sweated on bits (underlugs, front sight).  Oxpho blue from Brownells gets good reviews as a durable cold blue.  Is it blue or black?  Dicropan?

I know I could brown it and boil it but I think that turns out black?

[hawknknife]

Mr. Pierce, I have had excellent results with Birchwood casey paste blue in the tube.  After preping the barrel, I think it looks more antique, patina without a polish job. I squirt a generous amount on a soft cloth and rub like $#*!, over and over with more blue applied on the same patch.  It will turn the metal a rich brite blue, used it on tomahawk blades and all for years.  They changed their formula two years ago to a white in color paste, I called birchwood casey last week to ak if they still had the old stuff that was blue in color.  The lady told me there were so many complaints, they went back to the blue in color paste so be sure and look to see the past is blue.
      Opinions are like A-- H---s and every one will have their own...

[PIKELAKE]

Mr. Pierce, the last rifle I built, I used Oxpho Blue and was very happy with the result. I did have some Birchwood Casey paste , but it was quite old and probably did not have enough. The barrel did turn out blue blue and was easy to use. I happened to notice that Cabela's sells Oxpho if that helps. From my experience, hot bluing holds up alot better than cold, but that process is more involved.  JZ

[Larry Luck]

Rich,

I second the vote on Oxpho Blue.  I got mine from Brownells.  I used it on a Fordney-based rifle I had at Dixon's a couple years ago.  It is very forgiving, and works well when you slather it on with 4O steel wool.  No degreasing required.  It makes a deep blue (of a thickness I cannot attest).  I also used it on the lock and rubbed it out to a French gray color.

I plan to rust blue my next one, though.  Relatively short periods of browning to minimize surface pitting and then boil.  You might want to try a sample of barrel using rust bluing before giving up on it.

Larry Luck

[heinz]

Rich, browing and boiling can have a bluish tinge if the right chemicals are used.  

The last time I looked at cold blue formulations, which was admittedly years back, they were all basic electroless copper plating solutions and the copper was turned color by the other chemicals. They tend to a dark off black or true black. Some are about the same color as a heavy commercial blue, like an S&W for instance.

They may have improved.  I you want a bluish rusting (browning) solution I can look one up in Angiers.

[Jim Filipski]

Rich,
 Brownells used to sell something even better then Oxpho Blue  It was their "Dicropan T4" Darn stuff looked almost as good as temper blue but was long lasting. The only key was to polish the barrel out to at least 1200 grit It contaminated very easily so you should never redip your applicator into the bottle
Jim

[Ed Wenger]

Rich,

You can't go wrong with Oxpho Blue, I think it works great.  I've also been using Super Blue which I like a lot.  The more you rub it, the darker it will get.  If you get it a little too dark ,rub it back with some steel wool.  Steel wool with WD-40 will work even faster.  Covers and controls well also...  I apply a liberal coat of WD-40 when finished which stops rusting.

               Ed

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I have liked the 44/40 paste. Wayne Heckert turnrd me on to Vann's.  I am very impressed!!!

[Ben I. Voss]

I've never tried Van's blueing, but I just searched for it - Track lists it - 4 ounces for $6.95. Might need to give it a try sometime.

[LRB]

  Hey Rich, take a look here. I haven't tried it, but looks interesting
http://www.shootersolutions.com/vaningunblu.html

[Jim Filipski]

Rich
Here is the link for the Dicropan T4

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1085/Product/DICROPAN_T_4_reg_

[rich pierce]

 Hey Rich, take a look here. I haven't tried it, but looks interesting
http://www.shootersolutions.com/vaningunblu.html

Wow that looks fast and easy but maybe it is sort of black.  Hard to tell; no closeups.  I am hoping for a color like Acer's jaeger.

I think I'll order some dicropan T4 and oxpho from Brownells and give both of them a try.  Looks like hazardous shipping charges on the liquid forms but not on the cremes.

[Jim Kibler]

You may want to consider a product I think is called "Mark Lee's Express Blue".  I've not used it, but I've seens guns Mark Silver has used it on.  His feeling is that it roughly replicates a charcoal blue color.  He explained the details to me of how he uses it some time ago, but I can't rember it all.  I'm sure he offer advice in using it if you're interested.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

The Vann's tends toward bblue/black.......... it provides a very even and durable finish.  It's cheap enough I suggest that you buty some of each and test for the one you like best...

 I am trying to decide whether to leave my 1750 English long rifle bright or to blue it with Vann's........I am afraid bright is the PC answer.....but I like the looks of the Vann's blue better...........Oh decisions...

[P.W.Berkuta]

I use both  - Mark Lee's Express Blue and Oxpho Blue and this is what I found;
If you want a "blue" color then go with the Oxpho Blue - BUT- it will not last long, after a few gun cleanings it will wear away and you will be left with a "gray" look. Mark Lee's Express Blue will give you more of a "black / blue" finish and will last much, much longer - I did a rifle for a woman two years ago and it still has the "black / blue" finish to it and she shoots it every weekend. If you want the finish to last then go with Mark Lee's Express Blue  -- if you want a nice blue color and don't mind if it wears away in 3 months or less then go with Oxpho Blue. No cold blue will last ---

[bgf]

I like the standard PermaBlue precisely because it wears off to a nice gray pretty quickly.  I try to justify that preference as metal that was left bright and cared for regularly but has aged or blued and then worn thin.  Once it lightens out, it is pretty durable, and even if it wears through, that just adds character .

[James Rogers]

So far Oxpho has given the best rainbow blue to compare with a fire blue for me. Backing this off to simulate the wear of  fire blue that happened at a fairly rapid rate itself.

[Pete G.]

You ever thought about just sending out to a gunsmith and have him hot blue it ? The soft steel that most barrels are made of should come out pretty dark and be much more durable than any cold blue solutions.

[jwh1947]

Have had success with Van's.  Follow directions for preparation and application.  Blends well with original finish.

[J. Talbert]

Here's some Mark Lee Express Blue.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/jtflintlock/DSCN4011.jpg[/img]]
Specifically on the triggerguard, (the trigger plate is color case hardened)
Sorry I don't have any better pictures available, but I would recommend it for a dark, durable finish.

Jeff

[Nate McKenzie]

Never tried Vans. Sounds interesting. I've had good luck with 44-40. Oil it soon to prevent after rust.

[wmrike]

I'm not a big fan of cold blues.  Few offer any meaningful rust protection.  In fact, I had the opportunity to do lab test on a few some years back  and they rusted as fast or faster than bare steel.  A lot are splotchy, and re-applications are hit and miss. 

All that said, I beleive Oxpho Blue is a phosphate derivative and regardless of whether you get a thin or deep color from the process, it is extremely rust resistant.  Just the ticket for a river bottom environment.

Like so many processes, the quality of finish lies in the detail of application and each of us seems to have our own little twist.  Get two or three or four formulas and try each on scrap steel to see which works best for you.

[Dphariss]

You ever thought about just sending out to a gunsmith and have him hot blue it ? The soft steel that most barrels are made of should come out pretty dark and be much more durable than any cold blue solutions.

The bore is also blued and thus "etched". I don't do this.
But its personal choice I suppose.

Dan