Original Sam Hawken flintlock

[Herb]

R.L. Wilson has some excellent firearms books, including "Steel Canvas", "Silk and Steel" (about women and firearms), Winchesters, Colts, etc.  I just got his book "The Peacemakers, Arms and Adventure in the American West" from Edward R. Hamilton, Bookseller, for $17.95.  ISBN: 0-7858-1892-8.  In this book he has photos of Kit Carson and Jim Bridger Hawkens plus others, including a .70 caliber with tang ladder peep sight that was in Theodore Roosevelt's collection, originally owned by Kit Carson, and four pistols.  He writes "A specialty of the author's profession is the authentication of collector's firearms, particularly American antiques."  And, "As with Indian arms, collectors of mountain man pieces need to exercise particular caution  to avoid acquiring cleverly altered originals or patinated replicas."

He pictures a Hawken I've not seen before, and his caption is "TOP, by Samuel Hawken, and so signed; full-stock, and converted from flintlock to percussion.  One of earliest Hawken Plains-style rifles known."

The rifle has a steel pineapple patch box, a silver crescent forward of that, brass tacks in the wrist, silver key escutcheons, and the rear sight has been moved back about six inches.  There is no snail but a drum screwed into the side of the barrel.  Well- it was a flintlock.

[Dphariss]

R.L. Wilson has some excellent firearms books, including "Steel Canvas", "Silk and Steel" (about women and firearms), Winchesters, Colts, etc.  I just got his book "The Peacemakers, Arms and Adventure in the American West" from Edward R. Hamilton, Bookseller, for $17.95.  ISBN: 0-7858-1892-8.  In this book he has photos of Kit Carson and Jim Bridger Hawkens plus others, including a .70 caliber with tang ladder peep sight that was in Theodore Roosevelt's collection, originally owned by Kit Carson, and four pistols.  He writes "A specialty of the author's profession is the authentication of collector's firearms, particularly American antiques."  And, "As with Indian arms, collectors of mountain man pieces need to exercise particular caution  to avoid acquiring cleverly altered originals or patinated replicas."

He pictures a Hawken I've not seen before, and his caption is "TOP, by Samuel Hawken, and so signed; full-stock, and converted from flintlock to percussion.  One of earliest Hawken Plains-style rifles known."

The rifle has a steel pineapple patch box, a silver crescent forward of that, brass tacks in the wrist, silver key escutcheons, and the rear sight has been moved back about six inches.  There is no snail but a drum screwed into the side of the barrel.  Well- it was a flintlock.

Sounds like the Smithsonian Rifle. It definitely was flint. I have seen photos of it with the lock removed.
Its also in "Firearms of the American West 1803-1865" by Garavaglia and Worman.
Dan

[rich pierce]

If by Sam, like the fascinating Smithsonian Hawken, it was late.  For those interested in possible early flintlock Hawkens by Jake or J&S, is there any reason to think that early Hawken flintlocks would have been similar?

[Dphariss]

If by Sam, like the fascinating Smithsonian Hawken, it was late.  For those interested in possible early flintlock Hawkens by Jake or J&S, is there any reason to think that early Hawken flintlocks would have been similar?

Conventional wisdom is that they were probably FS guns similar to the Smithsonian example just earlier in design.
But the HS Hawken is basically a circa 1800 English rifle that is "Americanised" with a crescent buttplate, a flat bottom buttstock and DSTs.
Since the English guns were made in flint there is no reason to assume that Jake or J&S never made a HS flintlock. It think its entirely likely they did. Rifles converted by cutting the breech and installing a new lock would look to have always been percussion except for the lock screws which is not completely defining either.
Bottom line is that we are not going to find out short of some fantastic find in an attic in Missouri with iron clad documentation.
If someone walked into the shop in 1830 and wanted a HS rifle in flint they would likely have taken his money and built one.

Dan