Author Topic: Late English Cheekpieces? (Read 13031 times)

northmn · « **on:** August 21, 2010, 07:14:36 PM »

I am getting into the final shaping phase of a "sort of" late English halfstock flintlock I am building to deer hunt with. I see pictures of the percussion beaver tails on TOW and am wondering about the flintlock styles. Pictures and advice is welcome. Getting it down to where I could start shooting it but still need to get a rough shape.

DP

Daryl · « **Reply #1 on:** August 22, 2010, 09:30:41 PM »

Here is Dan's 16 bore flint 1/2 stock.

Here's the cheekpiece

The top one is a late flint 1/2 stocked 6 bore, while the middle one, also a 1/2 stock is of smaller stature, seems to me, I saw it called a 16 bore at one time. Steve Zihnn makes flint and percussion English guns but I havne't seen him on this site for a while. I'd contact him is possible and ask. As well, Dphar could give advice.

northmn · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2010, 11:38:48 PM »

Thanks for the pictures. Were I to do another I think I would have went for a fullstock like #3. Interesting that the halfstock ahs a wood patch box. May actually put one on. Have to get the detacable sling and front thimble squared away also. Really like a sling on a hunting rifle. I am using a Durs Egg lock (left hand) and have a GM 32" barrel so mines asmall bore for an English gun also.

Daryl · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2010, 12:55:15 AM »

Track has swivels for both 1/2 stocks(rib mounted) and full stocks which are mounted through a barrel tenon, as well as the forestock.

1/2 stock- narrow for rib.

full stock, wide to clear forend.

Dave B · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2010, 08:13:56 AM »

Here is the other side of a few English flintlocks with cheek pieces

They look a bit different from the late percussion cheek pieces

Daryl · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2010, 04:34:21 PM »

Longer, and climb to a shorter and thicker upper wrist.

northmn · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:18:45 PM »

The flintlock cheek pieces are a bit longer and more pronounced than the percussion ones I had viewed. Nothing really engraved in stone about them either as they can vary a bit. What I have been finding surprising about cheek pieces is that they are scooped out on top in a manner that does not provide much in the way of a "cheek piece". If they were not present one would not notice in shooting.

DP

Daryl · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:51:09 PM »

HA! - just now, after reading Dave's post, I had to re-check my pictures to see if my rifle had a cheekpiece. I've shot it, perhaps 2,000 times yet couldn't remember one way or the other.
No stain, just oil.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:51:30 PM »

Some alternatives I like:

Daryl · « **Reply #9 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:53:20 PM »

I find the bottom one, rather pleasing, Dr. Tim.

northmn · « **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2010, 12:59:22 AM »

The one comment I have read about cheek pieces or the stock in general on an English rifle is that they kick away from the face. Mine has the 2" wide buttplate and I have been shooting a lot of guns before they are finished to guarantee that they do that. The comb seems to be less pronounced than on a Lancaster.

DP

Daryl · « **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2010, 02:17:26 AM »

Interesting you mention kicking away form the face. Mine drives the shoulder down away from the face on recoil. Good thing, too, as it does have a bit of a "boot" to it.
The 'before' and 'after'.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2010, 06:29:30 AM »

Phew......So much for follow-thru!!!

northmn · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2010, 05:02:26 PM »

That's follow through with a big bore. He's still standing isn't he

DP

Daryl · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2010, 05:22:30 PM »

Hard to keep your sights on the target through the recoil. Not for shooting under low roofs. We were shooting the 200yard offhand target that day.

northmn · « **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2010, 05:41:21 PM »

Actually you have demonstrated some of the issues with English design. They used very large bores in their sporting rifles. My 58 is actually too small to be typical. They had to be built to be shot "comfortably" .

DP

Daryl · « **Reply #16 on:** August 24, 2010, 06:12:54 PM »

9 to 9 1/2 pounds complete for singles or doubles was the 'ultimate' in Forsyth's book.

Dan'l 1946 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2010, 06:47:05 AM »

Quote from: Daryl on August 23, 2010, 05:53:20 PM

I find the bottom one, rather pleasing, Dr. Tim.

I like that one, too. I have a similar cheek-piece on a 10 bore fowler that Allan Sandy made for me. Very comfortable in use and an elegant feature of the gun. I'm not certain, but I think this is an early style.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2010, 04:48:53 PM »

You are a lucky guy GOEX4fg!!

Yeah I think Allan makes really beautifully sculptured fowling pieces. The one I am about to build will have a cheekpiece like the one above.....it just seems to flow with the line of the gun...........

Dphariss · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2010, 05:24:47 PM »

DeWitt Bailey's "British Military Flintlock Rifles" has some late flint rifles made by Tatham as high grade gift guns for the NA natives about 1816. Its an excellent book containing chapters on rifles in America, Indian guns, Loyalist rifles etc with dates and footnotes ect.
The BEST idea is to buy the original Purdy Rifle plan from Track of the Wolf.
The stock design and cheekpiece are virtually the same as the late Manton/English flint guns. Just stretch the forend to take 2 keys. Even the lock internals are the same.
To make it right you need a true Manton/late English style lock from Blackleys or The Rifle Shoppe. The L&R #1700 is too early and the big rainproof L&R is too big.
I used the recessed breech Manton castings from TRS.

If I were doing it again I would use this or the V pan lock. TRS even sells breech castings for the lock shown.
Dan

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2010, 05:48:04 PM »

Dan, Does either place sell those locks finished? I don't have a machine shop nor really know anything yet about harddening lock parts etc... I think I might make a $200 lock kit into a $25 lock................

northmn · « **Reply #21 on:** August 27, 2010, 07:42:40 PM »

I used the Durs Egg lock because, as Dan states the other L&R lock is rather bulky and it has the roller in the frizzen insead of the spring. May be too early, but possibly could be slightly modified. There are also similar locks from Davis and Chambers. I lengthed the cheek piece a bit because of the pictures so I thank those that sent them. As I stated it is an Americanized version of an English rifle and will not be 100%. Its a deer rifle. Are my eyes getting bad or is their a large gap between the roller and the frizzen spring on that lock

DP

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #22 on:** August 28, 2010, 05:18:38 AM »

Quote

Are my eyes getting bad or is their a large gap between the roller and the frizzen spring on that lock

The spring has an 'ump.

sz · « **Reply #23 on:** August 28, 2010, 05:59:44 AM »

Here's one to look at too Daryl. It's a 4 bore rifle

I don't shoot these calibers anymore. I'll build them, but I won't fire them. 8 bore is now my limit of comfort.

Here are some cheek pieces for the readers to look at too.
All cap lock rifles, but you can still get a good idea what they look like for a working rifle.

Dphariss · « **Reply #24 on:** August 28, 2010, 08:22:46 AM »

Quote from: northmn on August 27, 2010, 07:42:40 PM

I used the Durs Egg lock because, as Dan states the other L&R lock is rather bulky and it has the roller in the frizzen insead of the spring. May be too early, but possibly could be slightly modified. There are also similar locks from Davis and Chambers. I lengthed the cheek piece a bit because of the pictures so I thank those that sent them. As I stated it is an Americanized version of an English rifle and will not be 100%. Its a deer rifle. Are my eyes getting bad or is their a large gap between the roller and the frizzen spring on that lock

DP

Locks with rollers on the frizzen have ramps on the spring, that is the case here.

Dr Tim:
Nobody makes a true late English lock though I think TRS offers assembly. They sell a breech casting that is also needed but its only for a 1 1/8" barrel.
Dan

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Author Topic: Late English Cheekpieces? (Read 13031 times)

northmn

Daryl

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