Author Topic: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)  (Read 16171 times)

BILL OKLAHOMA CITY

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...I am confused.

The barrel sets on top of the wood. My confusion is the wood along the sides of the barrel channel is not the same width/thickness on each side (in front of the first pipe from the rear). One side is 1/16 inch (maybe a little less) and the other side is almost 1/8.
The barrel is on the top of each side.
I am almost afraid to remove wood from the 1/16 side.

What do I do, folks.  
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 06:23:24 PM by BILL OKLAHOMA CITY »

Offline Long Ears

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2010, 06:07:40 AM »
I have built several pre-carves and the first thing I would do is call your supplier and question them. You may have the wrong barrel contour for that stock. Or several other possible screw ups on their part. give them a chance before you take a blade to it. IMHO. Bob

jwh1947

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2010, 04:36:24 PM »
Your dimension appears thin on one side, but keep in mind that you need very little wood there in the end.  Sometimes there's three times as much wood on one side compared to the other when the blank is pushed through a band saw to make the rough kit.  It may not be a problem.  Have an experienced builder look at it first;  he can eyeball it and tell you if you are OK. 

Incidentally, perhaps the most common weakness in a new builder's first gun is too much wood left on the fore end. The best period guns were sleek, not "loggy."  The barrel supports the wood, not the other way around. 

Offline Don Getz

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2010, 04:47:28 PM »
I've been trying to visualize what you are describing but am having problems with it.   Has the barrel been inlet into the
a pre-shaped stock?   When you say the barrel is sitting on top of the blank, I'm not sure what you mean by that.   If the
barrel has been inlet and the figures you show are for the amount of wood remaining on either side of the barrel, you
should have no problem......but, I'm not sure this is what you mean??????      Don

BILL OKLAHOMA CITY

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2010, 05:43:33 PM »
Don, it's hard to explain.
This is a pre carved stock with the barrel channel  "rough" inlet-ed.
The barrel does not set down in the channel yet as I would expect from a pre-carved.

My concern is thickness of the fore end wood where the barrel should set.

One side is a little less than a 1/16, the other almost a 1/8.

JWH, I would love to have a experienced builder come by and look at it,
 but I do not know of any here in Oklahoma City.

msw

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2010, 06:07:32 PM »
Bill, from what you describe, the inlet itself is slightly off center.  as other posts have inferred, it's hard to tell without a photo.

I agree that you should first call the maker- most of not all will make it right if there's any problem with the stock.

While you might conceivably be able to make the forestock equally thick on both sides after the rifle has been built by removing the thickness of the heavier side, give the dimensions that you mention, I think you might be "skating on rather thin ice" if you do this.

Just one guy's free advice, and no doubt worth every penny.

Good luck with your build- the frustrations will be worth it once the project is done!

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2010, 06:28:01 PM »
Can you drive over to Jones and see the guys at TRS, they might be able to shed some light on the problem.      Gary

BILL OKLAHOMA CITY

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2010, 06:28:42 PM »
I tried to take pictures.





BILL OKLAHOMA CITY

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2010, 06:30:43 PM »
Can you drive over to Jones and see the guys at TRS, they might be able to shed some light on the problem.      Gary

Gary,
Jones oklahoma?
fer sure.
Do you have a phone number or name of who I should contact?

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2010, 06:58:29 PM »
From the pictures ONLY; it does appear one side is a little thinner up front then the other, but not necessarily TOO thin.
My impression is that you may be fine just taking the one side down to match the other

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell

Offline rich pierce

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2010, 07:01:13 PM »
+1, should not need to remove much to get the barrel in and you should be fine.
Andover, Vermont

billd

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2010, 07:24:58 PM »
Was the barrel in the stock when you recieved it?   If so, did you leave it sit for any amount of time wiith the barrel out?

BIll

BILL OKLAHOMA CITY

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2010, 07:36:15 PM »
Was the barrel in the stock when you received it?  If so, did you leave it sit for any amount of time with the barrel out?

Bill

No, the barrel was not in the stock.

The stock was acclimatized in my house for about 6,7 weeks before I started the project.

billd

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2010, 08:00:42 PM »
It looks like you got the barrel in.  Was this a "kit"? I ask because the forearm is preshaped.  I would call the seller and explain to him the barrel channel is off center.  On the other hand, it should work if you take the heavy side down to match the lite side. 

I had a similar problem with a Chambers fowler. I wanted to use my wood and I live near Jim's carver. I took the wood to him and Jim sent me all the parts.  When my stock was carved it sat for about a month before I got the message to pick it up.  By that time from sitting without the barrel in it the channel warped, sort of closed it self up, more on one side than the other.  It took a little extra time, scrapping and sanding, but it all worked out.

Bill

Offline Don Getz

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2010, 01:20:00 AM »
One of your problems was letting the stock sit and get acclimated, you should have put the barrel in right away.   I always found that if you left the stock sit for even a few days the barrel would not fit......I'm talking about a completely
shaped stock such as an Isaac Haines, or one of Jim Chambers type of stocks........Don

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2010, 02:11:25 AM »
I may be a little slow here, but I don't see a problem...  Every "kit" (component set) I ever worked with, you had to finish inletting the barrel, they don't just drop in.  Use lamp black, inletting black, etc. and remove wood where needed.  Sometimes the forends on pre-carves are thicker on one side than the other.

                     Ed
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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2010, 02:31:58 AM »
Bill, I have an old catalog but the phone # on it is 405 396 2583       18420 East Herner Road      Jones, Oklahoma    73049        Dont know for shure if this is current as catalog is a 99 edition.       Gary

Offline Karl Kunkel

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2010, 04:42:45 AM »
Sometimes just taking the slightest bit of wood out of the barrel channel, and draw filing the barrel, will let it slip in.
Kunk

Offline Jim Chambers

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2010, 05:09:17 PM »
When I first started the rifle kit business in 1987 with Don Getz and Bob Lepley as partners, I had to decide whether to make the stocks (especially the forestocks) close to the way they were done in the 18th century or to make them oversize and hope those finishing the rifles knew enough to slim them down.  I chose to try to make them as close to the original rifles as was possible given the capabilities of the stock carving machine.  Lets take a look at machining capabilities for a moment.  Yes, there are CNC machines being make today that can hold incredible tolerances and could machine barrels that would all be exactly the same within one or two thousandts or less.  But, I don't know of any barrel maker that can afford one of those machines given the fact that most are small one or two man operations who are barely making a living at best.  Next, there are CNC machines that could machine stocks to those same incredigle tolerances.  But, again, who can afford one.  Also, wood is not like metal.  Once it is machined the internal stresses in the individual piece of wood can change the shape and dimensions of that stock sometimes considerably.  Bottom line is this:  our barrel makers and stock carvers are doing about as good a job as they can with the equipment available to them.  Do things always fit perfectly, no.  Can a competent gunmaker start with a well designed kit and make a great gun, yes.  But, when you are building from a kit you are limited to the design and architecture the kit designer had in mind when he designed the kit.  If you want different dimensions or different architecture you need to start with a blank.

Offline Kermit

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2010, 05:53:12 PM »
What Jim said. A few years back I worked for a smallish commercial cabinet/millwork shop that was making money and successful in every way. One of the owners went off to a "show" where he saw a marvelous CNC machine. $250k later it was delivered, only to find that it took another $70k to get the wiring, air, etc. up to running the machine. Then it took "engineering" guys almost a year and a half to understand the machine and the attendant software.

IF they had been willing and able to run two shifts and take on sub-contracting work, it might have worked out. As it was, it was another 4 years of pain before they went broke.

Machinery ain't always the solution...
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2010, 06:03:08 PM »
Bill, Did you get the barrel in??  If not get one of those @9.00 barrel inletting scrapers from Brownells and you will probably only have to run it up and down the barrel inlet a coule of times for the barrel to slip in... Do not take out too much.....microshavings at a time..... The last part of the rifle I work on prior to carving and finishing is to thin the forestock to 1/16" THIN.... Meantime always keep the barrel in it except when you need it out to do something..never leave it out over night.
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Offline Blackpowder Barbie

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2010, 06:29:57 PM »
First off any Chambers customer - when in doubt - Please Call Us First!  That's why we are here and offer to help all the time. 

Now, let me make sure I understand this - there are two problems?  The barrel was too big for the channel and the stock also has more wood left on one side than the other.

If the barrel was too big, and it wouldn't easy slide into the channel when pressed on firmly then there was a chance that you got a stock that was machined for a smaller barrel, but not identified by the carver and thus unknown to us at time of shipping.  If this was the case and you had called, I could have had you look at the stock and answer one question for me to have been able to tell for sure.  If it was the wrong size we would have gladly swapped it out for the correct stock.  However it looks like, from the photos, that you got went ahead and inletted the barrel into the wood and all is fine now.

Second, all of our kits are left with excess wood on all sides.  Just because it has more on one side doesn't mean the channel was cut off center or any other bad conclusions that could be imagined.  It just means that you will have to break out your rasp, find some extra elbow grease and take it down.  Looking at your breech photo the barrel is centered with the tang inlet and is in the right position to match up to the lock mortise.  The channel is NOT crooked in the stock it just has more wood left on one side.  Oh, and the thinner side still need to be taken down to about half its current width along the top of the channel so definitely not too thin. 

So, all is well and please just call me next time to save yourself some headaches!  ;D
Barbie Chambers-Phillips

BILL OKLAHOMA CITY

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2010, 08:15:25 PM »
Just to answear some questions and issues:

1. my main question which i did not express is/was how do I procede?

2. No, the barrel is not inleted yet. It is still just setting on top of the barrel channel.
   Although in the pictures it may look like it is in the channel, it is just setting on top.

3. Logic tells me that I need to take a tiny bit of wood off of each side until the barrel fits the channel.
     My concern was/is that one side is less than a 1/16. Pretty thin in my mind.
     As Mike Brooks says, I think it was Mike, "Ask first".

4. I am not questioning the quality of the pre carved stock or barrel, nor implying that
   either was mfg. incorrectly. There have been many, many top of the line rifles    assembled from these kits, I am sure. Raw wood moves! That is just a fact. Especially in this OKLAHOMA humidity.

        My concern is how do I procede?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2010, 08:24:54 PM »
Scrape wood off the side of the barrel inlet that is on the fat side of the stock.  Use inletting black, candle soot etc to see where it's touching.  I often solder a flat piece of thick brass about 3" long crossways of the barrel onto the top flat at the breech to use as a handle to lift the barrel straight up and out.  It also helps me keep things level.  Also make sure the stock is level in the vise; this helps keep everything from getting crooked.  Use a fat dowel in the muzzle to lift the barrel out.  Never "lever" the barrel out or tip it as you take it out as this will leave false inletting black impressions.

But it sounds to me like you need some basic books, DVDs etc to get you started.  I generally advise first timers to build a trade gun or musket for the first build.  Cheaper and if it's a little rough, less harm done.  Plus you learn all the basic steps.

Some basic advice is to keep your tools crazy sharp, to use good light, to work on the gunstock from both sides, to clean up inletting black where it smears the edges of your inlet carefully,  and to not go ahead when you're unsure or things are not going well.  Building a longrifle even from a kit is no small undertaking, and having someone with experience to check in on you every now and then would be a huge benefit.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 08:26:17 PM by richpierce »
Andover, Vermont

BILL OKLAHOMA CITY

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Re: I am inletting a barrel in a pre carved and...(PICTURES ADDED)
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2010, 08:32:48 PM »
By the way I never questioned the quality of the kit, as far as I am concerned they are top of the line, #1.
 If I had thought that there was a problem with the kit, the supplier would have been the first to know.