Horn Bottoms

[skillman]

I had a chance to talk with Wallace Gussler this last weekend.I mentioned that I understood that turned base plugs in pre-rev. horns indicated English manufacture.He said no,that English gentry would have used a flask,not a horn. He believed that there were turners in the colonies and they would have made these "bottoms". Only Gentry was allowed to have a gun to hunt. All others used a fowler. The "norm" in Europe was a flask to use with a gun. English troops used cartridges. Thought this would interest some of you. It caused me to rethink my presentation last weekend.
Steve

[James Rogers]

I had a chance to talk with Wallace Gussler this last weekend.I mentioned that I understood that turned base plugs in pre-rev. horns indicated English manufacture.He said no,that English gentry would have used a flask,not a horn. He believed that there were turners in the colonies and they would have made these "bottoms". Only Gentry was allowed to have a gun to hunt. All others used a fowler. The "norm" in Europe was a flask to use with a gun. English troops used cartridges. Thought this would interest some of you. It caused me to rethink my presentation last weekend.
Steve

I would agree that the "norm" for English gentry was a "flask". Many of those flasks were two-piece lanthorn types but some were cow horns that were left unpressed and plugged at both ends in various ways. Many had metered spouts early on.

Only Gentry was allowed to have a gun to hunt. All others used a fowler.
Still trying to wrap my mind around that one  

[Kermit]

Re: guns and gentry. Does "gun" indicate rifling the bore?

I seem to recall that there were countries--actually colonies--in Africa where natives were not allowed to use cartridge guns, and so there were muzzleloaders--many flint ignition--produced in Europe for African markets. This well into the 20th century.

Any historian who can verify this dim memory from my mid-century African history course?

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Re: guns and gentry. Does "gun" indicate rifling the bore?

I seem to recall that there were countries--actually colonies--in Africa where natives were not allowed to use cartridge guns, and so there were muzzleloaders--many flint ignition--produced in Europe for African markets. This well into the 20th century.

Any historian who can verify this dim memory from my mid-century African history course?

I teach African History.  Just like in the Americas the colonials controlled what they traded to the native populations.  Some African nations did have firearms that they got from the slave trade, but being seperate fromthe industrial revoluion, they generally did not have cartridge firing guns.  Once the Afrikaners got bolt actions and later machine guns, they would not trade those, but would trade the old stuff.


Coryjoe

[Cory Joe Stewart]

My thought for turned plugs is that they were turning other things, so it just makes sense they would turn those as well. 
Very interesting post.  As I always say is Gussler says so, it is.

Coryjoe

ps. I have never said that before, but I may adopt it.

[James Rogers]

I am interested in any documentation of professional horners in America pre-rev. time frame that I can be directed to.  I have no research knowledge in this area.  I believe certainly if there are any, they could surely be using turned plugs.
Is there a geographical area where these guys were set up?

[skillman]

James

In the book Powder Horns,Documents of History by Tom Grinslade, The research of Art DeCamp is covered in chapter five. This is a good starting point as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure some of the newsletters of the Horners Guild would also be a good source.
I will warn you that this may be a prickly journey. I am finding some disagreement amongst the experts.
Steve

[Jerry V Lape]

I am not sure of the actual history of flintlocks being used into the 20th century in Africa but I do recall from Stoeger catalogs of the late 1940s/early 1950s they were marketing flintlocks, which according to Stoegers, were made for that purpose. 

[Tim Crosby]

I am interested in any documentation of professional horners in America pre-rev. time frame that I can be directed to.  I have no research knowledge in this area.  I believe certainly if there are any, they could surely be using turned plugs.
Is there a geographical area where these guys were set up?

 Have you read the attached? it is on screw tips but certainly they turned the bases also.

 Tim C.

[Artificer]

Not trying to kidnap a thread, but as we are talking about mid to late 18th century horn plugs, was there a "standard", more common, or more often used wood to make them from? 

Thanks, Gus

[James Rogers]

]

 Have you read the attached? it is on screw tips but certainly they turned the bases also.

 Tim C.

Attached?

[Tim Crosby]

]

 Have you read the attached? it is on screw tips but certainly they turned the bases also.

 Tim C.

Attached?

 Sorry, this one.

 Tim C,

http://www.hornguild.org/articles-from-the-archives/willy-frankforts-1-of-1000-powder-horn-from-the-xxxx-issue-of-the-horn-book/

[skillman]

Gus

I understand that pine was the most common wood for bottoms. For turned bottoms I see "fruit Wood" refered to in many descriptions. I would imagine that any hardwood that was available and turned well would have been used.
Steve

[Artificer]

Gus

I understand that pine was the most common wood for bottoms. For turned bottoms I see "fruit Wood" refered to in many descriptions. I would imagine that any hardwood that was available and turned well would have been used.
Steve

Thanks, Steve.

In a way I'm not surprised pine was the most common as it cuts and turns so easily.   In another, I'm a bit surprised they didn't choose a hardwood even for the ends that were not turned.  Good info and I appreciate it.

Gus