which flintlock building book to buy?

[animus_divinus]

ive been looking for resources to building a flintlock from scratch, so i would need full blueprints of the components and stock... question is, out of all the flintlock building books out there, which ones should i look into?... my interest in flintlocks are the early pennsylvania rifles and earlier jaeger rifles, and the snaphaunce assemblies

so out of all books out there for a $20-$25 budget, what will get me the information i need?

[Jim Cook]

I have been using:
Longrifle Construction Manual
by: Susanne Bicio

Also:
Recreating The American Longrifle
by: Buchele, Shumway and Alexander

Also the many books by Kit Ravenshear

Have these references prevented me from making mistakes? Nope! But I'm sure they are a lot smaller with the help from these priceless books.

[paa]

Hey Friend, You are not tooo clear in your enquiry, in that, do you want to learn how to make a lock itself - in flint, or do you want to learn how to make a gun, which just happens to have flint lock ignition.  If you want to make a gun, my book, the Gunsmith of Grenville County, I can recommend, or even, Recreating The American Longrifle, which I co-wrote.  If you want to make a lock from scratch, search for THe Journal of American Armsmaking Technology, now out of print (like my book), but there is an excellent article in one of the volumes on forging a lock from scratch.  Regards,   Peter A. Alexander

[Bill of the 45th]

First off, Peter welcome to the site. A_D you need to consider all the books listed.  All of them have different ways of doing a number of the tasks, so I would consider two or three of them to start your research.  Also we don't know your skill level on metal or wood working.  You may be a cabinetmaker, but couldn't attach a bolt to a nut, or be a machinist, and not make a toothpick from a 2X4.  All this info could help the membership give you better advice.  There are many ways to be frugal and cut corners, but research is the most important first step on this trip.

Bill

[44-henry]

If you want to build a lock you might also check out Georg Lauber's books on the subjects, there were at least three covering flintlocks, matchlocks, and wheellocks. These all have blueprints, though there are some mistakes in them. You would be far better off purchasing a good manufactured lock and studying it carefully and using what you learn as a basis for building a custom lock. The Journal of Historical Armsmaking mentioned above would be very helpful if you decide to go this route.

[J.D.]

Stonewall Creek lists the "Gunsmith of Grenville County", but the price will break a 25 dollar budget.

http://www.stonewallcreekoutfitters.com/books.pdf

God bless

[animus_divinus]

well, id like to build the lock myself with hand tools.. you know, the long, painful, fun way, but im looking for a rifle to put it on as well, so any book that has all the blueprints for the lock and the stock would be great, for the flintlock build im interested in pennsylvania and earlier jaeger long rifle designs

so i would need ful dimensions to carve the stock, and hopefully i could get full dimensions to making a lock too.. do any of the books have this sort of in depth information?

[Dphariss]

You can't get all the info you need for that price.
Dixon's book and the plans from Track of the Wolf.
But don't expect blueprints.
Kentucky rifles are not build from blue prints.
You also need something like Kindig's book and perhaps one of the KRA picture books such as Kentucky Rifles and pistols 1750-1850 and Rifles of Colonial America vol I and II.

Your best course is to start with Dixon's book and a kit from JIm Chambers Flintlocks, get an idea of what you are doing then go on from there. If you try making a rifle from scratch cold turkey with no prior experience and little study or at least good photographs it could be an exercise in extreme frustration unless you know of a skilled maker who will help you through the process.

Dan

[Dave B]

You have no info in your profile so it makes it unlikely you will get much of a response being anonymous. If you gave a location you may find some of our members not far from you and could get connected to some one in the know. You may be able to actually hold the real thing then. Blue prints can never replace holding the real thing.

Some food for thought as you travel down the path toward your goal. The building of a lock is a major under taking and you will be served well by starting out with one of the best lock kits out there from Jim Chambers called the large Siler flintlock. It is of the Germanic design you will be needing to make and will allow you to get your feet wet. If you screw something up you can get replacement parts for it.  You of course may be a rocket engine engineer and have all that you need at your finger tips and could build them from scratch as long as you have the blue prints.
I have seen blue prints on making a lock from scratch in an older book, but for the life of me cant remember where or which one. If you were going to buy one book I would get the Shumway book Recreating the American Long rifle. The book includes a full size plan of a long rifle and pistol.  I think they still come with these, it has been a number of years since  I purchased mine. I also really like the Gunsmith of Grenville Co. but he has no blue prints. Most of the builders supplies have plans for rifles including German Jaeger's. Good luck on your quest.

[animus_divinus]

initially my intention was to buy the siler castings with springs.. was like $85 or somewhere around there.. carve the stock myself, and buy the double set trigger, trigger guard, buttplate, etc and make something... not sure exactly what id make, but i do like the fancier jaeger designs, so if i could find a book with the plans for making a jaeger stock that would be a nice start

if not a jaeger than id rather have the older style pennsylvania rifle

i actually have blueprints of an old wheellock rifle.. unfortunately after punching in the dimensions for most of these parts already, ive learned a lot of them are close, but dont match up so would take an enormous amount of hand fitting to get them to fit... however with solidworks i can tweak the dimensions so components match up, do a function test with a rendering until its just right, then print the templates to build one of these.... this is my winter project

that being said i already have the raster files for a complete matchlock with stock.. but those were never difficult with their three moving parts

im kind of looking for something thatll be done for general hunting season this year, so i was planning to buy the siler castings and a 50 or 54 cal barrel and go from there... so the one thing i will DEFINITELY need is a book with plans on preferably a jaeger rifle, if not that then a pennsylvania, plans for the lock itself is a secondary, less important goal for right now

[animus_divinus]

i just made this account today, and have been busy so of course i havent had the opportunity to fill it out, im in northern PA... actually im not far from where the pennsylvania rifles origionally came from... and why does not having info on my profile cause concerns? afraid im going to make a bunch of muzzleloaders and sell them to local gangs?... hah (joking)

[Tom Currie]

I would recommend Dixons book for a beginning builder and minimally RCA #1 as a detail reference. I know it's 2 books but you are spending $600  in parts alone. You won't be sorry once you have Shumway's RCA# 1, your build be be better.

[Don Getz]

Animus.......somehow I get the feeling that you are going to do a lot of stumbling thru the forest before you find your
way out.   There are several shows coming  up in the very near future, right here in Pa.     The first one is in Myerstown,
Pa. and will be held on   Sept. 17 & 18, one in Greensburg, Pa. on October 15 & 16, and one on Feb. 5 & 6 in Lewisburg,
Pa.    My suggestion for you would be to look at a bunch of guns, find one that you really like, then assemble the parts
you need to build it.   You will find a lot of people at any of these shows that would be very helpful in your quest......Don

[animus_divinus]

i hand carve musical instruments from wood, maple being common, so carving out a stock, if i  had the dimensions needed is just another days work, its not something thatll be difficult at all, and i do have an engineering background and proper tools so i can buy the cheaper sandcast parts (buttplate, trigger guards, etc) and finish those up myself... since i already have a source for the maple for a stock, i priced out the barrel, lock castings, double set trigger, breechplug, trigger guard, and a couple other parts to under $300, so all i need is a book that gives me all the dimensions i need to accurately carve a stock

[Dale Campbell]

Hi AD.  The short answer is, it's not that simple. Every lock, barrel, trigger, butt plate, trigger guard, and so on are different.  And the type of rifle, and area it might have been made (referred to as "school") means each of those things will vary.  So a blueprint, which I think is what you're looking for, doesn't exist.  You need a blueprint like drawing so you understand how things fit, and that's fine.  You also need a couple of the books mentioned above to show you how the lock you have will fit on the barrel you have, and how it needs to be set in the wood you have, and how the wood you have with that barrel and lock you have, need to fit to you so you can put in the trigger you have, on so on, and so on and so on....  These things fit together to fit you.  You'll need some idea of what you want your rifle to look like (school), too.  With this in mind, go back and cull some of the info above.  A little spent on a book now will save a lot in headache medication later. And a new piece of wood or barrel.

[Ky-Flinter]

a_d,

Welcome to ALR.  Since you're on a budget (I know that feeling!), check your local library for the various reference books mentioned.  If they don't own the books you want, they can likely get them for you thru the Inter-Library Loan program.

If I could only have one LR building book, it would be Recreating The American Longrifle by Buchele, Shumway and Alexander.  But, I also have the other ones mentioned and they are good too.

As said before, review the reference books on the originals and go see as many as you can in person.  Good luck.

-Ron




 

[rich pierce]

A_D, welcome to a great endeavor.  No doubt you'll be able to assemble a longrifle given blueprints and a book.  But some of us see it as more than assembly to a pattern. 

To put it into a perspective that might resonate with you:  I have all the necessary skills and tools from building longrifles to build a violin, so could you tell me a book with blueprints to buy for under $25 so I can get to making the violin?  Which books are best for the money?  They cover how to make the metal bits, right?

[Mike Brooks]

A "blue print" isn't going to do you any good unless you're using EXACTLY the same parts as on the "blue print".

f i  had the dimensions needed is just another days work, its not something thatll be difficult at all,

Quite a statement for a guy who has never built a gun.....
 I get all my parts together so I have all the dimensions of the parts I'll be using, and draw out a pattern designed to look like the gun I want to build on every gun I assemble, which is what every person here does when they are building from a plank.

[g.pennell]

A-D,

I know it sounds odd, but when you get all your main parts in-hand (barrel, trigger, lock, butt piece and triggerguard castings), you use these to actually draw your own blueprint for the rifle.  The parts you choose must fit together in a certain relationship, and the stock is designed to hold all the parts in their respective locations...the relationship of the parts, and a few key measurements such as your preferred length of pull and drop, determine to a large degree what your stock will look like.  Use the parts to make a full sized drawing (bluepreint) of the rifle you will build.

It will make more sense when you get your hands on a good longrifle building book or two.

Greg

PS...sorry, Mike...that's what I get for posting without refreshing the topic first!

[44-henry]

I don't even know how you would begin to dimension all the parts that go into even a relatively simple lock. Even if you could there would be relatively few people who have the equipment to reproduce them. You can design parts all day long in Solidworks, but you still have to build them at the end of the day. What you probably really want is a 3D model of the part, not 2D blueprints. I suppose you could make good use of a 3D scanner if you could find someone with something you wanted to recreate, but even than I suspect you know enough about machining to realize that building it is not so simple a task, if you don't, than you need more education/experience (not necessarily in that order).

We just brought in a 3D printer in our university lab that does allow one to print parts directly from CAD files and I have CAD files that I created of the Wheellock in Lauber's book (probably the wheellock you mentioned earlier), I suppose that I can print it out to test function, but who really wants a plastic wheellock? You will find that machine tools will come in handy, but there is a point where you just have to pick up a hand tool to complete the job and nothing beats experience and artistic ability at that point.

[animus_divinus]

i know how they fit together and how to fit them, but im looking for a general, common type jaeger OR pennsylvania rifle stock, either one is find though the older it is, the more i like.. doesnt really even matter which school it is unless its completely something off the wall, as far as locks go, something like what the jaegers and pennsylvania rifles used, i believe known as the large germanic locks, im really not looking for anything too specific, just trying to find something useful if that makes any sense

[animus_divinus]

with a 2D blueprint i can make 3D models of the part just fine, this allows me to test the final fit of the parts dimensionally to see if there are any major arrors to take note of, if so i can correct those errors on the 3D model and then print out patterns to make the parts so once theyre done according to the patterns, far less fitting actually needs to be done

[Acer Saccharum]

The shaping and carving is one thing, but making sure your components are in the right place is another. A full size drawing is helpful, along with a good book. I like Dixon's quite well. Do not assume everything you need to know is in a book. Use your eyes everytime you see an original, look how its held together, how the lock meets the barrel, how the nosecap fits, etc.

I find this is a journey of constant learning. Take your lessons from all walks of your experience, not just a single source.
Tom

[Jim Kibler]

We just brought in a 3D printer in our university lab that does allow one to print parts directly from CAD files and I have CAD files that I created of the Wheellock in Lauber's book (probably the wheellock you mentioned earlier), I suppose that I can print it out to test function, but who really wants a plastic wheellock? You will find that machine tools will come in handy, but there is a point where you just have to pick up a hand tool to complete the job and nothing beats experience and artistic ability at that point.

Plastic wheel lock parts would be great.  Scaled suitably oversize to account for shrinkage and printed out of the appropriate plastic, investment castings can be made directly from these parts.  Think of these as the waxes in the investment casting process.  Very doable.

[44-henry]

We've been playing around with investement castings using the 3D prints and, you are definitely right, they do have application. Our printer uses ABS plastic and I've found the burnout temperatures are much higher than the normal waxes we have used, but still possible. As I'm writing this I have a pair of bolsters on the printer now that I copied off a Scandinavian knife and plan on casting them in silver later this week.

The downside is that right now we don't have the facility to cast steel, perhaps in the future.