Ed Rayl Barrel Steel?

[C. Cash]

Good Morning!

Had a question for you guys in the know.  I have a barrel on order with Ed Rayl....and I'm pretty sure I asked him if he uses the hard 4140 type steel and he said yes.  I've talked with a builder here and he has said that Rayl went to a softer steel a couple of years ago.  Now I'm wondering......is the harder steel gone now?   It is hard for me to connect with him on the phone, so thought I would ask here.  Thanks in advance!

[Jim Kibler]

I'm pretty certain the standard material he now uses is 8620.

[LURCHWV@BJS]

  You gotta remember also that Ed is a school teacher Also.  So he is at work throughout the day.


Rich

[Jim Kibler]

  You gotta remember also that Ed is a school teacher Also.  So he is at work throughout the day.


Rich

Nope, not a school teacher now.  I don't believe he's taught for many years.

[Jim Chambers]

Ed is a retired school teacher who now works full time making barrels.  For many years he did use 4140 steel for his barrels, but because of availability issue he had to switch to 8620 several years ago.

[smokinbuck]

Jim is correct, Ed retired a number of years ago.
Mark

[C. Cash]

Thanks guys!  Where does 8620 fall?  Is it harder than 1137?

[LURCHWV@BJS]

I stand corrected,  Sorry


Rich

[C. Cash]

  You gotta remember also that Ed is a school teacher Also.  So he is at work throughout the day.


Rich

I do understand how difficult it must be to make stuff AND answer the phone, so it doesn't bother me at all.   He was great to talk to and hope to have one of his barrels in a few months.

[keweenaw]

8620 is a really nice steel to work, much easier than 4140 but with good mechanical properties.  How hard it is depends on how it's been heat treated.  It will not harden to the same rockwell as 4140 or 1137 and it's too soft for center fire rifle barrels at the velocities and pressures people like today. 

Tom

[C. Cash]

Thank you Tom!  That is good info......very much appreciate it.

[44-henry]

8620 is a really nice steel to work, much easier than 4140 but with good mechanical properties.  How hard it is depends on how it's been heat treated.  It will not harden to the same rockwell as 4140 or 1137 and it's too soft for center fire rifle barrels at the velocities and pressures people like today. 

Tom

I love 8620 for machining, I used to be able to get a good supply from Bobcat when they were still selling off scraps to employees. This alloy is most commonly case hardened if treatment is necessary.

[Acer Saccharum]

I think C Sharps may use 8620 or similar for their actions. My understanding is that it's a medium carbon steel, and can be case hardened on the outside hard, while leaving the core tough.

[keweenaw]

Ruger rifle receivers are 8620, and almost anyone else who is investment casting, uses 8620.  It case hardens beautifully but has enough carbon in it the you can do some through hardening - like on a bolt action receiver.  Unlike very mild steel which when case hardened still has a soft core, 8620 has a tough core after case hardening.  Almost all of the locks we use are cast from 8620.

Tom

[JCKelly]

I bought a Caywood Mountain Rifle, used, specifically because that company claims to use Ed Rayle 8620 barrels.

8620, even annealed, for rifle barrels is infinitely superior to 1137.  8620 is tough and ductile, so if something goes wrong it will bulge or tear, rather than shatter.

For muzzle loading rifle barrels, and for shotgun barrels, "hard" is not what is desired, "tough" or "ductile" are the properties one wants.

My working life was spent as a metallurgist, involved with everything from plain carbon steel through nickel base superalloys.

By the way, things do go wrong when shooting muzzle loaders. Humans err, even when they know better. The most dangerous error (barring use of smokeless, which is more like insanity than error) is to leave an air space between powder and ball. Sometimes nothing happens. Sometimes the barrel rings or bulges (that is good) & one needs a new barrel. And, on unfortunate occasion, the shooter will require a new hand.


8620 is the best steel in use today for muzzle loading barrels.

[C. Cash]

JC Kelly, Acer, Snyder and 44 Henry....thank you for this info.  I didn't see this post the first time around.  It sounds like I am going to be happy with this Rayl barrel.   I ordered up a Tiger Hunt Left Hand Early Lancaster to go with the barrel, and will be looking at parts soon.  Many thanks to you all!