Sharpening Engravers

[A.Merrill]

    After reading an old post on engraving. It made me wonder if I was sharpening mine right. One guy said his cut brass like butter.    I really don;t want to spend allot of money on power sharpeners so.      What is the best way to hand sharpen engravers ?      What should the tip look like ?     AL

[Joey R]

Watched Jeff Talbert give a hands on tutorial at Fort Boonesborough earlier this year with the Lindsay sharpening system. It's a neat system and pretty well foolproof IMHO. Good Luck!

[Acer Saccharum]

If this does not reproduce for you, I can send it to you ind PDF format.  tcurran(at)fairpoint.net
Tom

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Get the Lindey Graver sharpening system.... less than $100 for evverything if I remember. It sets all the crucial angles for you that are so tiny that you have to have a loupe or some other magnifier to even see them.

[bama]

There are many ways to sharpen a graver, learning one that works for you is the secret. The Lindsay templates do make it easy to get a consistant point for the style of graver that the template is made for. I have his template for the square graver that is set up for the parallel point grind. It is a good point but it is different from the standard square sharpening method.

I also have a power wheel and a dual angle sharpening system by GRS. This system lets you get consistant angles on your graver's but you have to know what angles you want first. You can sharpen any style graver with this system.

I have found out that you can't cut a decent line until you can sharpen a graver. You can't sharpen a graver until you understand what kind of line you want to cut.  Understanding what kind of line you want to cut will determine how you sharpen your graver. You won't understand what kind of line you want to cut until you know which graver that has been sharpened correctly will give you the line you want to cut!!!!! This is can be a very confusing to say the least.

So get a square graver, do your best to sharpen it as the books tell you to or get the Lindsay parallel grind template. Get some metal that you don't care if you mess up and start cutting. After you break a few points and have to resharpen the graver and see what kind of lines you can cut with the square you will have a much better understanding of sharpening.

I will tell you this much. The time you spend learning to sharpen a graver will pay for itself in the long run in how much you enjoy your engraving experience.

[Dphariss]

    After reading an old post on engraving. It made me wonder if I was sharpening mine right. One guy said his cut brass like butter.    I really don;t want to spend allot of money on power sharpeners so.      What is the best way to hand sharpen engravers ?      What should the tip look like ?     AL

Go to Smartflix/firearms/engraving and rent the Lynton Mckenzie set he shows a simple way to sharpen gravers without any high priced tools or holders etc.
http://smartflix.com/store/category/74/Engraving

Dan

[Ron Scott]

I will also endorse the Lindsay sharpening fixture. The key to good cuts are consistency in sharpening. This fixture yields sharp points with reproduceable angles. It is inexpensive in addtition.   You can view them at handengraving.com

[David Rase]

I started using the Lindsay system this year due to the fact that it was just getting too hard to consistently sharpen my trusty die sinkers chisels with my eyes.  As Ron stated, the Lindsay system is quick and consistent.  If I would of know how easy the Lindsay system would make life I would of invested in it several years ago.
DMR 

[Birddog6]

Get the Lindey Graver sharpening system.... less than $100 for evverything if I remember. It sets all the crucial angles for you that are so tiny that you have to have a loupe or some other magnifier to even see them.

$ 100. may get a few pieces of the Lindsey System, but unless it has recently changed, they charge about  $600.  for the  Entire  set up.  (this is all diamond stones (manual, not a power hone), all plates & all jigs, & with instructions.  

Keith Lisle

[Captchee]

  im with the others on the lindsey  system . its easy and simple .
 steve is constantly coming up with more and more templates  alll designed  by some of the highest reguarded engravers  points .
 you get a perfect point every time . no guess work

cost depends on what your buying .
 if you dont need the stones  then ist  pretty darn reasonable . if you go with a power hone , then it can cost alot .
 
 one of the best investments i have ever made
 here is a link to the costs as well as all the diffrent  templates .

http://www.airgraver.com/Hand_Engraving_Tools_Overview.htm#GRAVER SHARPENING

[Dphariss]

Get the Lindey Graver sharpening system.... less than $100 for evverything if I remember. It sets all the crucial angles for you that are so tiny that you have to have a loupe or some other magnifier to even see them.

$ 100. may get a few pieces of the Lindsey System, but unless it has recently changed, they charge about  $600.  for the  Entire  set up.  

Keith Lisle

The system Lynton McKenzie explains is the cheapest and apparently works well and will give accurate angles from the explaination. But its still necessary to buy stones and good ones are not cheap.
I got lucky and found a GRS power hone, virtually new, on the WWW for about what the wheels that came with it would cost.

Dan

[Jay Close]

I'll "second" the recommendation to at least check out the video by Lynton McKenzie. I've had good luck adapting his basic approach to abrasive papers on plate glass "stones" or using the bench stones I already had for sharpening woodworking tools.

It's always good to bear in mind that the jigs and fixtures we tend to rely on were likely unknown to the the longrifle builder in the 18th century. I recall that Lynton was of the opinion that quite a bit of engraving on early American rifles was accomplished with a simple, flat tool sharpened with two rounded bevels much like a woodcarvers chisel. That's a simple one to sharpen but I've found it a challenge to use. Meek's book describes this tool and I recall that Bruce LaPage at one time used it extensively.

[Ron Scott]

With the Lindsay system, all you need is the template of choice, probably the 96 degree or 116 degree and holding fixture. This is the $100.00 or so portion.  As suggested, you need a sharpening stone or diamond plate 1/2 inch thick. You do not need the power hone.

I do have a power hone, primarily because I taught a class and needed to shape gravers for ten students.  If anyone needs Lindsay Gravers ground to shape, I can do it for them. One they are ground they should be good for a very long time.

So yes indeed, it is an economical sharpening system.

[KLMoors]

I've tried both methods and I've settled on the Lindsay System too. I buy W-1 3/32" tool stock from Mcmasters (Item number 8894K12) and I make my own gravers for probably fifty cents apiece or so. You can get a 36 inch piece for $2.50 plus shipping. Way cheap.  I rough grind them to shape on my grinder using the jig shown below combined with the Lindsay Templates. Then I finish them with the Lindsay Templates on my good stones. Then I harden and temper them and they work as well as any of the Lindsay or GRS gravers I've bought. The whole process takes about 10 minutes per graver.  They may not be hard enough for modern gun steels (they may be, but I haven't tried) but they are plenty hard for brass and the mild steel we use on these longrifles. Heat to cherry and quench in water for hardening and then heat to straw yellow and quench again in water to temper.


 This whole process was described on one of the engraving sites a while ago. They work like a charm. And, since you are shaping and sharpening them while they are annealed, that goes really fast. After hardening and tempering just touch it up and you are good to go.

The block of pine shown in the picture is 1/2 inch offset from the wheel for the Lindsay Templates. This really speeds up the rough shaping and saves your good stones.

[Birddog6]

I stand corrected.         Went & dug out the invoice.  I also bought a bunch of blank gravers to get me started with it. So it would be about $475. for all of it (and manual stones, not a power sharpener) , as I got about $100 worth of graver blanks when I got the system. Total for all was $ 566.33 with shipping.  All of it is still in the box, untouched.    
Shortly after buying it I ran across a good used power sharpener with a diamond plate & a ceramic plate & sharpening jig, have used that ever since & not touched the Lindsey system.


Keith Lisle

[Acer Saccharum]

With the rig Capt Fred sets up, he illustrates that the Lindsay template system can be used with any kind of stone, wheel, what-have-you. You can be sharpening consistently with very little investment. If your needs change, you can easily reshape the templates to your preferred angles, or make your own for special sharpenings not offered by Lindsay.

I don't even own a Lindsay template jig yet, but it is on my wish list.

GRS sells a more complicated dual angle fixture, and it is fabulous for developing tool geometry of your liking. It is not as fast as the Lindsay, but it is more versatile.

If you are just getting started, I'd say the Lindsay would be your best choice.

Tom

source of supply:

[LRB]

  The Crocker jig also works well, and runs around $40.00. Upper left corner.

[Dphariss]

I've tried both methods and I've settled on the Lindsay System too. I buy W-1 3/32" tool stock from Mcmasters (Item number 8894K12) and I make my own gravers for probably fifty cents apiece or so. You can get a 36 inch piece for $2.50 plus shipping. Way cheap.  I rough grind them to shape on my grinder using the jig shown below combined with the Lindsay Templates. Then I finish them with the Lindsay Templates on my good stones. Then I harden and temper them and they work as well as any of the Lindsay or GRS gravers I've bought. The whole process takes about 10 minutes per graver.  They may not be hard enough for modern gun steels (they may be, but I haven't tried) but they are plenty hard for brass and the mild steel we use on these longrifles. Heat to cherry and quench in water for hardening and then heat to straw yellow and quench again in water to temper.


 This whole process was described on one of the engraving sites a while ago. They work like a charm. And, since you are shaping and sharpening them while they are annealed, that goes really fast. After hardening and tempering just touch it up and you are good to go.

The block of pine shown in the picture is 1/2 inch offset from the wheel for the Lindsay Templates. This really speeds up the rough shaping and saves your good stones.

I make flats from O-1.
1/8" lathe tools make excellent gravers too.
I may make a few square gravers too. Can't find 3/32 x 4" Glensteels anymore and I have some walnut handles ala McKenzie for them. So when the ones I am using wear down I will need a workaround.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

I bought a Crocker jig a couple of years ago from Gesswein, who carries top of the line stuff, and the jig was total junk. They took it back, no questions asked; but REALLY, folks, what I needed was a low cost fixture.

[A.Merrill]

    OK, most everybody say Lindsay, so.    I have 4 push an 2 square engravers. What part of the sharping fixture do I need?    AL

[LRB]

I bought a Crocker jig a couple of years ago from Gesswein, who carries top of the line stuff, and the jig was total junk. They took it back, no questions asked; but REALLY, folks, what I needed was a low cost fixture.

Acer, mine is near worn out. Still works great. What problem did you have?

[KLMoors]

Al, the Lindsay kits are set up to work with the 3/32 square stock gravers.  You can put various types of points on them but I have found that the Detailing 96 degree ones work best for me. The standard one is the Universal 116 degree and I have the templates for it too but I find myself mostly using the 96 for some reason. The 116 is a tougher point due to the wider angle but in the soft stuff we engrave for these guns I have found the 96 holds up just fine and is a little easier to control for me.

I'm a real rookie at engraving so I'd recommend you call them and get their take on it too.

[David Rase]

I just received the 70 degree bulino fixture this week.  I have been using the 96 degree point like Fred uses.  I have the basic 116, 96, 70, flat and round sharpening templates.  I bought the 70 degree template to run a deeper groove when engraving a nick and dot border.  I felt that the 96 degree template cut too wide a groove for the depth I needed.  I played around last night cutting a 70 degree groove and then cutting perpendicular triangles with the 116 degree point.  Initial results were good. 
For a less refined boarder I still like to cut a straight line with the 96 degree tool and then use the flat engraver to cut a running triangle boarder.
Have I done a good job of confusing you?
DMR

[bama]

Kieth since you got the Lindsay system I bet you got the parallel grind template, you should really give this point a try. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how well it cuts in tight radius's and straight lines to.

[Acer Saccharum]

By the way, some brass cuts really nice, and other is like trying to engrave clay. I would rather engrave steel any day over brass.