Author Topic: rust blue/carding  (Read 21476 times)

Offline Metalshaper

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rust blue/carding
« on: September 17, 2010, 02:27:32 AM »
OK this must be the topic of the week or so  ;D

working up to some rust bluing of my own. now the question I have is "How" do ya' all go about carding your work?  I did some searching around on the web and saw a Midway gunsmithing demo, where he used a wire wheel to card.

Seems like that would be a touch aggressive? So, How far back do you take it? In my previous browning work, I rubbed the parts back with a piece of heavy denim. I was always taught just to get the fluff off.. So I'm a bit confused?? any tips and suggestions would be appreciated!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline David Rase

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2010, 03:40:25 AM »
I use a wire wheel.  What I like about the wire wheel is that it gets down through the rust to the metal so there is only color, no visible scale thickness.  It take a good half dozen applications or more.  I apply and remove a coat every 12 hours using a browning box and Wakon Bay.  I keep applying the rust solution and wire wheeling until the color is is solid from one end to the other and then I do it one more time.  I boil and then caed.  I figure that when I am done with the process, if it won't come off with a wire wheel it ain't going to wear off.
DMR

R.W.D.

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2010, 04:32:42 AM »
Scotch Brite pad has worked well for me.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2010, 05:02:04 AM »
A drixcell wire wheel from Brownell's is available with various wire lengths and diameters, and will remove the scale without damaging the finish.  It's 1" wide, and works very well.
In His grip,

Dane

Dave Dolliver

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2010, 05:03:27 AM »
I use the industrial, maroon, Scotch brite pad since it's a bit more aggressive than the green stuff you can get at the grocery store.  I'm using Laurel Mtn Brown, boiling after each coat, and its usually taking about 4 coats to get it where I want it.

Dave Dolliver

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2010, 05:50:52 AM »
Wow,

 thanks for the responses! I appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out.
Locally I can get a wire wheel, steel wires, 0.008 dia. X 6"  do you think this is fine enough, for the power option?

I have some of the different Scotch Brite pads. Green, blue and the maroon. may have to run a lil test and see what works best for me.

Thanks again!
Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline Dphariss

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2010, 06:31:27 AM »
OK this must be the topic of the week or so  ;D

working up to some rust bluing of my own. now the question I have is "How" do ya' all go about carding your work?  I did some searching around on the web and saw a Midway gunsmithing demo, where he used a wire wheel to card.

Seems like that would be a touch aggressive? So, How far back do you take it? In my previous browning work, I rubbed the parts back with a piece of heavy denim. I was always taught just to get the fluff off.. So I'm a bit confused?? any tips and suggestions would be appreciated!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan


Degreased OOOO steel wool. Take off everything that will come off with it.
Rust blue is MUCH MUCH tougher than brown.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

g.pennell

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2010, 12:28:40 PM »
Another vote for Scotchbrite...I use the grey ones a lot, for carding, and for burnishing metalwork.  Unless I'm going for a mirror finish, I usually polish to 400 grit, then burnish with the Scotchbrite.  They work great in place of steel wool for wood, too...and don't leave any fibers in the wood that will later rust.

Greg

keweenaw

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2010, 06:28:09 PM »
Having done dozens of these jobs,  my favorite carding is with a wire wheel.  Mine if from Brownell's.  The wire size is 0.0025".  0.008" would be way, way too stiff.  I 've also done dozens of jobs with degreased (it's important to degrease it) 0000 steel wool.  Either will work fine and neither will scratch the surface of the work.  If you polish to worn 400 grit and  don't rust too aggressively you can get a beautiful, soft satin finish with either carding method.  As in all rust bluing it's critical that the surface of the work be absolute clean so that the first coat goes on evenly.  If you get major streaking on the first coat even many additional coats won't even it out.  It's also important that you get no oil in the tank as this will coat the parts when you take them out so wipe the bore as clean as you can get it but don't degrease it.

My favorite, by far, rust bluing agent is Pilkington's American Rust Blue that Brownell's sells.  It's not cheap but one bottle will do a couple dozen jobs and it doesn't have any mercuric chloride in it.  Most of the browning solutions are too aggressive and if you aren't careful will pit the surface.  But then that all depends on what you want, rust slowly for elegant finishes, rust aggressively if you like your guns to look like they were neglected and left out in the rain for a week or so every year.

Tom

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2010, 09:47:44 PM »
I use Hallmark.  Takes a while but it comes out real smooth.
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Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2010, 10:18:40 PM »
Wow, great info.  You can tell I haven't rust browned, let alone blued, many pieces.  I'm intrigued what was mentioned by Dave R that the item is 'boiled' in the last step (
Quote
I boil and then carded
.  Oops I edied. 
I'll ask another silly question; do you literally boil a barrel?  I'll assume in water then card the item?  And if it's a barrel do you recommend brown the underside or leave in the white?
I think I'll pass on more questions from this newbie,,,,,,,for now anyway.
Thanks, gary
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Offline Metalshaper

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2010, 10:26:46 PM »
Gary,

 Please keep asking!  Never hurts to get more input or help someone answer a question they have.. at least that's the way I think? :)

While I'm not exactly a newbie to browning, I've never tried (or thought much about Rust Bluing ) the build I'm working to finish, just seemed like it 'should' be blued. Hopefully it's gonna turn out nice.

I'll post it in the 'over the fence'  section when I'm done. sine it's a UH and sort of a fantasy??? build.

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2010, 11:29:21 PM »
David Rase...your post is a little ?ing.  Do you only boil ONLY after that last brown is finished, or do you boil and card with each application?
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2010, 12:32:50 AM »
I boil  only after  the last carding. Actually it.s more of a scalding than a boil as my burner setup is a bit weak.  I also use a wire wheel.
BJH

Offline David Rase

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2010, 03:08:33 AM »
David Rase...your post is a little ?ing.  Do you only boil ONLY after that last brown is finished, or do you boil and card with each application?
Taylor,
I boil each time I pull the barrel out of the browning box.  Don't know if that is necessary or not but that is how I do it.  I am open to any new ideas. 
Here is a photo of one of my rust blued barrels.

DMR

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2010, 03:36:20 AM »
Thanks David.  I thought that was what you were going to say.  Nice blue on that bbl.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2010, 04:10:32 AM »
The Brownell's stainless steel wire wheel with the frog hair wire(.003) is really not aggressive at all.

this is a pretty tough spot to card without rounding over edges, and losing detail. The Brownell's wheel did a great job.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 04:10:50 AM by Acer Saccharum »
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2010, 05:33:43 AM »
David Rase...your post is a little ?ing.  Do you only boil ONLY after that last brown is finished, or do you boil and card with each application?
Taylor,
I boil each time I pull the barrel out of the browning box.  Don't know if that is necessary or not but that is how I do it.  I am open to any new ideas. 
Here is a photo of one of my rust blued barrels.

DMR

I do the same.
I think it makes a harder finish and its how it was done according to Angier.
Its possible to get blue with Plumb Brown then boiling the part or pouring hot water over it. But its not the same as the slower method.

Dan
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Offline Metalshaper

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2010, 05:46:55 AM »
I use Hallmark.  Takes a while but it comes out real smooth.

FL-Flinter,

Hallmark??  a brand of wheel or such? and where did/do you locate it?<vender source?>

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Leatherbelly

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2010, 07:11:54 AM »
 HiDaveRaze!
  That's a great colour on your barrel. I'm curious about durability of this finish? Is it tough,resist rust etc...?
  Missed you at Heffley this year. Lots of fun as usual!

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2010, 02:45:40 PM »
The rust blue is really durable in comparison with any other kind of blue.
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Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2010, 05:21:25 PM »
I use Hallmark.  Takes a while but it comes out real smooth.

FL-Flinter,

Hallmark??  a brand of wheel or such? and where did/do you locate it?<vender source?>

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Jon,

Sorry, just me being a wiseguy.  For the most part it was intended as a spoof ... "carding rust" with "Hallmark greeting cards" but utilizing pressed paper board for carding purposes in certain applications does have its merits. 
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Offline Metalshaper

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2010, 08:22:17 PM »

Sorry, just me being a wiseguy.  .

FL-Flinter,

 kinda funny actually!  No harm, No Foul ;)

 Needing the gun done before next weekend and wanting to heal my hands up some  before the voo.( arthritis at 48! Yea!!) I can't wait for a wheel to come in. so Trying a bit of the 4/0 SW, and the different scotchbrites and searching for the next best thing, for my situation.. so far, some old cotton work socks do the best?

I can card and work the surface down and get an almost burnished surface. just need to figure out If I can get away with 'just' a hot bath of boiling water..or do I need to have it physically boiled? I'm kinda getting the idea it is/has been done both ways??  makes a difference on on what I get for building a tank..

To Everyone, THANKS for the ideas and sharing your experience with me! I appreciate it all!!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline David Rase

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2010, 08:30:18 PM »

just need to figure out If I can get away with 'just' a hot bath of boiling water..or do I need to have it physically boiled? I'm kinda getting the idea it is/has been done both ways??  makes a difference on on what I get for building a tank..
[/quote]
In my experience with Wakon Bay rust blue you do not need a roaring boil.  Once I get just a little agitation in the water I am up to temp.  Temp, never thought to check the temperature of the water.  Bad thought, checking the temperature, go away bad thought, keep it simple stupid.
DMR

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: rust blue/carding
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2010, 08:39:33 PM »
Anybody try using this Brownell's rust bluing  http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=22820/Product/CLASSIC_RUST_BLUE



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