grenade!

[Roger Fisher]

The title tells where we are going with this....

A Pennsylvania shooter of 35 or more years used one of those plunger style brass primers of 180 gr capacity w/4f.. He shoots a right handed rifle lefty.  His habit for all those years was to place this primer in a flapless pouch on his shooting bag strap with said pouch located at his lower rib cage.  He would place the primer in the pouch plunger up to avoid losing prime in to the pouch.  His habit was to rest his right elbow over the primer to protect the primer.  Murphy's law finally caught up with him and upon ignition of his flinter the primer exploded.  Hospital trip resulted and he suffered arm cut in to the bone at right elbow, puncture wounds to abdomen, bruised liver and lung.  He is healing up and will not quit shooting (but will change his methods) Best explaination for cause is that he apparently squeezed his elbow against the primer and moved the plunger open somewhat with an errant spark managing to get in to the thing and set it off.  He claims the primer plunger was clean and had shut off neatly upon priming the lock.

The shooter involved wants to get the word out and that is reason for this post. 

So, hopefully the reader of this post will examine his handling of his/her primers and make sure they are not exposed to sparks or debris from his rifle/gun or his neighbors.   Applies to offhand, bench, stix, chunk or whatever.  We gather the boys and girls together at our local (and some not so local) shoots and go over this incident to make them aware of the danger of having a primer (or main horn)
exposed the way this shooter did..!

Pass it on we do not need any more bad PR.

[Daryl]

Ouch!

[Harnic]

Thanks for the "Heads up" Roger!  That's a lesson we can all learn from!  Funny you came up with it just now...  I've decided to get a new pouch & switch from powder horns to period correct powder & prime flasks which will fit in said pouch after every loading.  Funny how caution seems to rule more frequently the older we get!

[bob in the woods]

Those little brass plunger type primers are grenades in waiting. The horn ,if ignited , will split open, and the powder will burn. Those brass "pipe bombs" are just that IMO. Seems to me I heard something a while back about the fellow that owns Stonewall Creek Outfitters losing part of a hand to one of those things?

[hanshi]

 Oh, my goodness!  That is a real "heads up".  That's another reason I usually carry pre-measured  cartridges when hunting.

[Dphariss]

Thick wall brass containers will produce a more violent explosion than one of horn or thin brass like a normal flask would be. I have one that is likely just like the one in the incident but quit using it when it was pointed out to me that they had the capability to produce a much higher pressure explosion than less substantial materials.

Dan

[Roger Fisher]

Thick wall brass containers will produce a more violent explosion than one of horn or thin brass like a normal flask would be. I have one that is likely just like the one in the incident but quit using it when it was pointed out to me that they had the capability to produce a much higher pressure explosion than less substantial materials.

Dan

Your surely on the mark and the answer is to keep the primer and/or main horn out of harms way.

[Roger Fisher]

Those little brass plunger type primers are grenades in waiting. The horn ,if ignited , will split open, and the powder will burn. Those brass "pipe bombs" are just that IMO. Seems to me I heard something a while back about the fellow that owns Stonewall Creek Outfitters losing part of a hand to one of those things?

Actually I have seen horns that blew up and shattered in many pieces (shrapnel) and this had been 'written up' on more than one occasion.  The idea that using a very few pins to hold in the main plug will prevent the shattering with said plug simply blowing out is not true.  (The horn will usually shatter) Yes, the new owner you mentioned did have such an accident.  I do not know the details.

Many years ago I spoke to a shooter at a shoot regards the grenade he had hanging around his neck about heart level.  This made in spain thing was about 3 inches in diameter imitation 'ivory' with an embossed woodland scene of some sort and had a hinged flat cover (spring driven) that was meant to close off the spout.  I mentioned to him that it was a bomb and that I would not use such a thing.   He got a bit up tight and we haven't seen hide nor hair of him since,.      I hope he is still with us!

[Daryl]

I-too have one of those brass plunger-primers - usually put it back into the bag after priming - but my .32 bag has a priming horn holder on the strap.  I'll not use it any more with horn nor brss primer - good thing to remove for sure.  Many horns made today are way too thick.  It takes a lot of work to scrape a horn thin - something not seen on may comercial horns.

[Kermit]

Every time one of these stories comes along, I re-evaluate what I do. I long ago started putting my primer in my bag before each shot. When I get really nervous I start thinking about shifting to left-side carry for my horns!

[Dphariss]

Those little brass plunger type primers are grenades in waiting. The horn ,if ignited , will split open, and the powder will burn. Those brass "pipe bombs" are just that IMO. Seems to me I heard something a while back about the fellow that owns Stonewall Creek Outfitters losing part of a hand to one of those things?

Actually I have seen horns that blew up and shattered in many pieces (shrapnel) and this had been 'written up' on more than one occasion.  The idea that using a very few pins to hold in the main plug will prevent the shattering with said plug simply blowing out is not true.  (The horn will usually shatter) Yes, the new owner you mentioned did have such an accident.  I do not know the details.

Many years ago I spoke to a shooter at a shoot regards the grenade he had hanging around his neck about heart level.  This made in spain thing was about 3 inches in diameter imitation 'ivory' with an embossed woodland scene of some sort and had a hinged flat cover (spring driven) that was meant to close off the spout.  I mentioned to him that it was a bomb and that I would not use such a thing.   He got a bit up tight and we haven't seen hide nor hair of him since,.      I hope he is still with us!

The difference is in the PSI needed to break the container. Horn or the thin metal flasks burst at low pressure, less velocity to the resulting projectiles and a lower pressure shock wave. More flash burn and less or no structural damage to the body. Those metal flasks were made thin for good reason I think.
If the container breaks at 100-150 PSI or less its a far different thing than something made of thicker wall metal that may hold to 1000 psi or more.
So as I stated I retired the thick wall brass tube primer and have gone back to horn, antelope or cow.
The problem with the brass plunger valves, I have one I have used a lot, is that they can and will leak at times and powder will be found in the hunting pouch.
Darn, now I am talking myself into putting a horn or antler spout on the antelope horn I have with the push type valve I have used for 30 years or so. Null B tends to clog it internally anyway. To fine for the mechanism I guess.

Dan

[bob in the woods]

The plunger type tips on the brass primers are what makes them so handy. I myself used one for over 15 years, and never had a problem; but...it only takes once , and I like my fingers!  When it was pointed out to me that there was a potential problem, I switched to a small priming horn. Very thin walled. It seals tight, so now I don't have powder in the bottom of my bag. Another good thing.  I have gotten away with a lot of semi-dangerous things in my 57+ years, but the older I get, the more I try to avoid useless risks. Most of the original brass powder containers/flasks that I have seen, aren't much heavier than a modern can that the powder comes in {GOEX}.   Not much pressure containment capability, and that is good.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I carry fffg in my horn on the left side and load (with an antler measure) and prime with the horn. I made a priming horn with one of those plungers but ...too much trouble and danger.....Can't be too careful.

[Bill-52]

Roger,

This sort of post is really helpful to a soon-to-be-shooter like me (as soon as I finish my first rifle).  Thanks, Roger.  Good to see you in Myerstown.

Bill

[ken]

I have seen many of these type primers and other home made ones at redezous and at the ranges. Every time something is said to the person they give back flack.Many have know clue what can go wrong.Thanks Roger for getting the word out ,a picture is worth a 1000 words!

[KNeilson]

I have been putting mine on the stand/bench beside me while shooting. And just recently got one with a larger capacity. I`ll not be doing that anymore .    thx for the tip ... Kerry

[Roger Fisher]

I have been putting mine on the stand/bench beside me while shooting. And just recently got one with a larger capacity. I`ll not be doing that anymore .    thx for the tip ... Kerry

We see some shooters laying their primers beside and under the firelock when shooting from the bench.  beware murphys law!  And same thing w/some chunk shooters and they will be reminded to place the primer back on far siide of their leg opposite side from the lock.

I politely took one new shooter aside in past couple weeks at a local shoot (he is maybe 13 yrs old) and spoke to him abt laying his brass plunger type primer on a plank that was set on the line for pistol shooters.  This put the primer abt 18" below the flint lock when he was in offhand position.  He changed that habit and I hope it lasts.  I'll keep an eye on him this Sunday at the same club.

[William Worth]

Thinking this over...I realize I have developed a probably bad habit of bringing the the frizzen back immediatly after priming to avoid the prime being blown away by the seemingly ever present wind...with the primer, whether it's a brass primer or a small horn, still gripped close by in my paw.  If the flint has shifted in the jaws,  I could see it being easily possible to strike up an AD right into the presence of the primer!!!

[Daryl]

Thinking this over...I realize I have developed a probably bad habit of bringing the the frizzen back immediatly after priming to avoid the prime being blown away by the seemingly ever present wind...with the primer, whether it's a brass primer or a small horn, still gripped close by in my paw.  If the flint has shifted in the jaws,  I could see it being easily possible to strike up an AD right into the presence of the primer!!!

I did something like this, holding the rifle pointed down range, of course while priming, and had the rifle fire as I slapped the frizzen down, cock could have been  at full bent due to short throw lock (Hmmmmmm) - when I slapped the frizzen down, the jar kicking of the trigger and firing the rifle - luckily, no injuries.  I always replace the woodend plug in the priming horn immediately after priming and put that horn back in my bag. The danger of that firing is the flame from the vent can actually bore a hole through or into your hand or fingers - not very pleasant, I imagine.  there was no danger of the unaimed ball hitting someone as muzzles are always pointed down range, aren't they.

[Dphariss]

Thinking this over...I realize I have developed a probably bad habit of bringing the the frizzen back immediatly after priming to avoid the prime being blown away by the seemingly ever present wind...with the primer, whether it's a brass primer or a small horn, still gripped close by in my paw.  If the flint has shifted in the jaws,  I could see it being easily possible to strike up an AD right into the presence of the primer!!!

I did something like this, holding the rifle pointed down range, of course while priming, and had the rifle fire as I slapped the frizzen down, cock could have been  at full bent due to short throw lock (Hmmmmmm) - when I slapped the frizzen down, the jar kicking of the trigger and firing the rifle - luckily, no injuries.  I always replace the woodend plug in the priming horn immediately after priming and put that horn back in my bag. The danger of that firing is the flame from the vent can actually bore a hole through or into your hand or fingers - not very pleasant, I imagine.  there was no danger of the unaimed ball hitting someone as muzzles are always pointed down range, aren't they.

We had a percussion rifle AD at the range in Cody today. Bullet hit about 4 ft down range from the muzzle stirred a little gravel.  It was an embarrassment for the shooter and he lost a score shot, but nothing more because of proper range safety.

Dan

[FG1]

The title tells where we are going with this....

A Pennsylvania shooter of 35 or more years used one of those plunger style brass primers of 180 gr capacity w/4f.. He shoots a right handed rifle lefty.  His habit for all those years was to place this primer in a flapless pouch on his shooting bag strap with said pouch located at his lower rib cage.  He would place the primer in the pouch plunger up to avoid losing prime in to the pouch.  His habit was to rest his right elbow over the primer to protect the primer.  Murphy's law finally caught up with him and upon ignition of his flinter the primer exploded.  Hospital trip resulted and he suffered arm cut in to the bone at right elbow, puncture wounds to abdomen, bruised liver and lung.  He is healing up and will not quit shooting (but will change his methods) Best explaination for cause is that he apparently squeezed his elbow against the primer and moved the plunger open somewhat with an errant spark managing to get in to the thing and set it off.  He claims the primer plunger was clean and had shut off neatly upon priming the lock.

The shooter involved wants to get the word out and that is reason for this post. 

So, hopefully the reader of this post will examine his handling of his/her primers and make sure they are not exposed to sparks or debris from his rifle/gun or his neighbors.   Applies to offhand, bench, stix, chunk or whatever.  We gather the boys and girls together at our local (and some not so local) shoots and go over this incident to make them aware of the danger of having a primer (or main horn)
exposed the way this shooter did..!

Pass it on we do not need any more bad PR.

Dang!! That could give ya a bad flinch !!

[Dancy]

I have been priming the pan directly from my big horn, is that bad? Maybe I should transfer the powder to my measure first? Haven't been doing the flintlock thing too long and want to be as safe as possible.

[Roger Fisher]

I have been priming the pan directly from my big horn, is that bad? Maybe I should transfer the powder to my measure first? Haven't been doing the flintlock thing too long and want to be as safe as possible.

Since the frizzen would be open it seems to be of little hazard; but remember Murphy's Law!!  I would ask you if you would prime with the goex (or some such) one lb powder can???  It would give me the hives for sure.    So, go with the flow and use a small horn or other small primer and tuck it out of harm's way each and every time immediately after priming...

Read Ol Daryl's post again abt slapping the frizzen closed still holding the primer in his hand near the gunlock