Newbie Carving Tools

[AllenS]

I've been using the search function to research which carving tools I should get.
Found some info but am still unsure what to do.
Picked up a hunk of maple awhile back and figured I'd start practicing C scrolls, etc.
Also have Gunsmith of Grenville Co for a reference.
I've been to Woodcraft.com and saw that the Pfeil sets are a bit out of my reach at this time.
Trying to save up for a power hammer and a rifle kit...
How many tools would I need to start out with and which types?
thanks,
Allen

[Ryan McNabb]

You don't need to worry about carving until you've built several  plain rifles and have learned proper architecture.  Noone wants to hear this, but it's the truth. 

So, that being said, Pfeil tools are excellent and among the more reasonably priced gouges out there.  Buy them one at a time, not in sets.  Get an assortment of sweeps, but nothing much wider than 3/4" (18mm).  I think most of my go-to gouges are about the 12mm width.  Get one a month and in a year you'll have all the gouges you could ever need.

I've found that unless you're lucky, used carving tools off ebay are more trouble than they're worth but you can get lucky.

[Robby]

Allen, Your avatar shows you to be a smithy, go ahead and make your own. To me , a large part of the satisfaction I get comes from making as many parts for the gun as I can, and making the tools to make those parts is just a bonus. I do draw the line at mining the ore.
Robby

[Dphariss]

I've been using the search function to research which carving tools I should get.
Found some info but am still unsure what to do.
Picked up a hunk of maple awhile back and figured I'd start practicing C scrolls, etc.
Also have Gunsmith of Grenville Co for a reference.
I've been to Woodcraft.com and saw that the Pfeil sets are a bit out of my reach at this time.
Trying to save up for a power hammer and a rifle kit...
How many tools would I need to start out with and which types?
thanks,
Allen

Straight chisels are easy to make, I use O-1 for this, but gouges and parting tools are more problematical in the sizes often used in carving.
Incised carving can be done with a parting tool. I think Homer Dangler has a DVD where he uses a parting tool to outline relief and do incised carving.

For relief carving using straights and gouges to do the curves Wallace Gusler's carving video is excellent.
This is a good source for renting instructional DVDs

http://smartflix.com/store/category/113/Firearms

But learn to make a nice rifle with good lines and no excess wood before jumping into carving, at least relief carving. Nor should you confuse the carving sometimes done on modern guns with what was done on Kentucky rifles.

Dan

[AllenS]

Thanks for the advice.
My problem with making tools is that time is valuable and time spent in the Smithy is used to make more products for the next show.
I've located a 50lb Little Giant with a patient owner who is willing to sell and it'll save labor and fuel.
As far as learning to carve, I need something to do while sitting at a craft show and figured that would be a good thing to try.

Btw, am looking at a Chamber's Pa Fowler or Lancaster kit to start. I'm very interested in the Bonewitz style because of his close proximity to me.
But after reading how good their kits are, thought that would be a good way to get my feet wet.
Allen

[Benedict]

I have an extensive number of carving tools.  Most are Pfeil with a few others including some that I made myself.  With all these tools, I find that often the ones I like to use the best are the ones that I made.  This includes straights and gouges.  Just buy or make the tools as you need them.  Never buy sets.  For gunmaking the sets do not generally have the sizes and shapes needed so you end up wasting money.

Good luck.
Bruce

[Jerry V Lape]

Guess I will be swimming against the current here but if you want to carve your first rifle go ahead and carve.  I did and learned I really enjoy that aspect of building the most.  But before you carve into that first rifle follow your instinct and get a piece of curly sugar maple to repeatedly practice your chosen carvings for the rifle.  Shape that piece of wood similar to the curvature of the rifle in the appropriate locations.  I started with a low numbered gouge , #3, approximately 1/2" wide,  straight chisel 1/2" & 1/4"wide,  and a viener.  As I practiced I was able to figure out exactly what I needed for each carving step and bought one piece at a time so I wasn't wasting money.  And I still practice each carving repeatedly before applying it to the stock.  I don't try to do a carving step with a tool unsuited to that particular cut.  You will also want some small scrapers.  My favorites are just a straight pieces of steel 1/2"x2 1/2"x1/32" which I shape the ends into whatever form I need at the moment.   

When you order your kit, make sure the kit maker understands you need a hard maple stock so you don't get into the softer wood that has a problem with fuzzy carving. 

[rich pierce]

I am also swimming against the current when I tell folks not to start on a high end kit but to assemble a Lyman GPR first, learn final fitting and finishing skills, then move to a plain musket or trade gun, before plopping down $800 for a kit that could either come out being worth $400 or $4000 depending on who is doing the work.

[Ky-Flinter]

AllenS,

Welcome to ALR.  The above is all good advice.  I posted the following about a year ago, so the prices may have gone up a little....

These little gouges and chisels are nice, well made little tools and very reasonable priced.  Power Grip by Mikisyo Tools, sold by lots of woodworking supply houses.  Set of 7 is under $40.  They offer several sweeps in different widths individually for $6 or $7.  Woodcraft had a sale on them last year $3.95  I've bought a bunch of other higher priced gouges since and I'm always reaching for these.  Google Powergrip chisel   You can get started for low $.


-Ron

[longhunter1757]

I'd also recommend Jack Brooks Beginning Carving DVD. He goes through the entire process from sharpening to using and basic designs. I picked a copy up at Dixons this year along withhis Beginning Engraving and am quite pleased with both.

Rich Baker

[Rich]

All of the advice given above has merit. The idea of building a plain rifle first seems like a good idea. If you build a rifle without carving, that is one less thing that can be done wrong. I don't think jumping in and starting to learn to carve is a bad idea. The architecture is vital. If you get it wrong, carving won't fix it. On the other hand, not carving won't fix it either. They are two of the many skills that you will want to master. I do not know of anyone who believes their first build was the best they could ever due. You will find architecture errors after your finished and want to do another. As to carving, there are at least two main ways of carving. Using a parting tool (v gouge) to outline and then remove the background and then shape the carving. The other way is to stab in the design using gouges that match the curves being cut. The latter method uses a lot more tools. The videos mentioned above are great. I've learned to always buy the best tools you can. Pfeil has worked well for me. Gusler's video is excellent and discusses tools.

[Rootsy]

AllenS,

Welcome to ALR.  The above is all good advice.  I posted the following about a year ago, so the prices may have gone up a little....

These little gouges and chisels are nice, well made little tools and very reasonable priced.  Power Grip by Mikisyo Tools, sold by lots of woodworking supply houses.  Set of 7 is under $40.  They offer several sweeps in different widths individually for $6 or $7.  Woodcraft had a sale on them last year $3.95  I've bought a bunch of other higher priced gouges since and I'm always reaching for these.  Google Powergrip chisel   You can get started for low $.


-Ron

I own that little set in the photograph.  Handy little buggers.  

[Black Hand]

You would be surprised how quickly you can make a chisel from a large masonry nail.  Veiner, large and small gouges, fish-tails, etc.
Other than a few straight chisels, I have made all the others I use.  Need a size/shape for a particular project, make it.....

[Pete G.]

Maybe build a rifle style that uses incised carving to begin with. Then move up to relief carving on the next. If you haven't been told yet, you can't build just one.

[California Kid]

Good incised carving is more difficult to do than relief carving. No way to fix mistakes.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

This place is great http://www.woodcarverssupply.com/

These are cheap and more the size needed for fine carving :  you don't need.. all of them  just one set will help immensely... see the other pages on these micro tools

[Cody Tetachuk]

You don't need to worry about carving until you've built several  plain rifles and have learned proper architecture. 

On the contrary, why would you want to learn the different aspects of rifle making IE architecture, inlaying, carving, engraving, etc one at a time??. To my way of thinking, if you wait until you get the architecture right, then try carving, you'll get a nice rifle with amateur carving. Same goes for inlaying and engraving. May as well learn them all as you go so your abilities as a whole come together after say 10 guns rather that 10 guns to get the architecture down, then 10 more to learn to produce quality carving. What better time to learn carving than on an amateur stock?.

[Acer Saccharum]

@!*%?&, Cody, I find myself agreeing with you.

There is so much to learn, why, if I waited until I got the architecture right, I'd be dead and gone by the time I was ready to start carving my guns.

Many of theses skills cross over into another. For example, refining the architecture or the shape of the stock is training your eye to the subtleties of form. When drawing your designs for carving, this same eye is looking at the curves, making judgment calls on the curves, the flow of the design, etc.

However, should you not pay attention to the architecture, but pour all your efforts into the carving, you will end up with a pig in fancy lingerie. Nice panties, piggy, but you're still a pig.

What is the matter with me today?  (don't go there, Dave)

Tom

[Cody Tetachuk]

@!*%?&, Cody, I find myself agreeing with you.

Oh OH, off your meds again eh?

[T*O*F]

Oh OH, off your meds again eh?

I thought he had found a new drug.......kinda like Huey Lewis.
Wouldn't it be great if a modicum of applied logic reared its ugly head once in a while?

What is the matter with me today?  (don't go there, Dave)

Why you wanna be hatin' on the D-Man?

[Cody Tetachuk]

Wouldn't it be great if a modicum of applied logic reared its ugly head once in a while?

It does. Are you saying that I should post more often??

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Well, remember familiarity breeds........

But.....I think you should write a paper for new builders....."Words from the Sage: Meditations on Beginning to Explore the Art and Mystery of Gunbuilding" or "Beware the Slippery Slope"  ......   that expands on you post above........and then have it posted as a tutorial or pinned at the beginning of the Gun Building Forum....

Something to point beginners to and ..... required reading annually for all members?

[AllenS]

Thanks for all the diverse opinions.
Now which way do I go...  
I have access to a planer so after that chunk of maple gets filled up I can wipe the slate clean and start over again.
Allen

[AllenS]

Forgot to mention that I'm going to try my hand at forging belt axes and such this Winter and plan to do a little carving on the poll also.
So that experience should help too.
Allen