How do I love planes, let me count the ways

[smallpatch]

OK, till today, I've always HATED using planes on Maple.

I was wondering around on the WWW, and found a video, on tuning and using planes.

I spent about an hour, cleaning up, sharpening, and properly adjusting an old 6" jack plane, then proceeded to smooth out a VERY Curly side of a forestock.  No chatter, smoother than I could sand it.

Just ordered a new Stanley Sweetheart low angle jack plane, and a low angle block plane.  These are going to be invaluable tools for gun stocking from now on.

I'll try to post the video.  (if I can find it again)

Who knew..... ya gotta set em up right before they work right.


http://woodtreks.com/how-to-tune-up-a-hand-plane/19/

[smylee grouch]

Thanks Dane, I needed help with those things but I like using them. I have about a dozen planes of different styles and all need sharpening and adjusting. I think i'm a wood plane junkie as I have that many and want to buy a couple more. Oh well.    Gary

[skillman]

Smallpatch

Mark Silver has been a strong advocate of planes and scrapers for a long time now. I took a class from him a number of years ago and it helped focus my work with them. I have a number of old small wood planes, both wood and metal, I have picked up at flea markets and second hand stores. A little work and you have some really mice, functional tools. I don't think I have spent over 35dollars for any of mine. Usually less.
Steve

[Elnathan]

I am rather fond of planes myself, though so far the promise has exceeded the reality. I have three, a little wooden one that I made out of an old rasp and some stock scraps, a wooden Mujingfang jack plane, and a little Stanley block plane that I got off ebay. The homemade one doesn't work except for taking off corners - why I'm not sure. The Mujingfang is wonderful - it worked straight out of the box, which is nice because I haven't had time to tune it up yet, and since my apartment here in Mississippi isn't very airtight I am not really sure the sole will stay flat long enough to make flattening worth it. Right now it is upside down in my vice, where I have been using it to shape chisel handles octogon. The Stanley came with the sole unflattened, and I probably put in about 12 hours worth of filing and lapping last summer to improve it. It still isn't perfect, but may work fine - I haven't got around to finishing sharpening the blade yet.

I really prefer using planes for shaping over a rasp when possible. They are more fun to use.

[Kermit]

I build furniture for a living. Expensive furniture. I have and use handplanes. BUT--please regard almost all the planes on the market today as kits. You MUST spend time with them flattening, truing, tuning, and sharpening. Even then some are not worth the time you've just spent on 'em. Older Stanleys--Bedrocks especially--are more worth the effort, but tool collectors have made the prices way high.

You can also spend an absolute fortune on really high-end infill planes and be ready out-of-the-box. But you can buy a couple of very nice muzzleloaders for the same cost.

Getting more real, look at Lie-Nielson and Clifton. I've got some of each along with my old Stanleys. Even with planes costing into the mid three figures, you should expect to spend time fussing with it. My real go-to plane for a lot of work is an old Stanley Bedrock #4 with Clifton iron and cap iron. Cost me about $90 for the Clifton replacements, but made all the difference.

If you have more time than money, and don't we all, get an old Stanley that isn't beat to $#@*, flatten it (it may take a trip to a machine shop if badly worn, but you should have checked that). Then go after the iron. Polish the back, then sharpen it more than scary sharp. Then look at the cap iron. It has to be tuned up too. Now adjust the throat as fine as you can. Should work for you. Oh--you can get new rosewood knobs and totes for a fair price if the wood is busted up. All this is why I start with a high quality plane in the first place. My work depends on it.

You can drive a Yugo or a Maybach, but what you may need is an F-250. With the right attention to detail, some accessorizing, and some care, that Ford just might perfect for what you need for years to come.

[Jerry V Lape]

Okay, I have watched the video and understand it as far as it went.  However, it leaves me a couple of questions.  When you "adjust the throat" I get making the blade parallel to the plane's bottom.  But how much blade should protrude below the plane's bottom and how large a gap should there be forward of the blade in the throat? Or is the gap controlled totally by blade depth?  I admit to being a novice with planes but want to get mine working for stock shaping versus draw knife and rasp. 

[Kermit]

Take the iron off. Look down there in the frog. Should see a couple of nice big screws that run in slots. You can loosen these and adjust the position of the blade fore and aft. I'm assuming a Stanley-type plane here. I keep mine set so fine that a shaving can barely fit through the opening. When I make a specialized wooden plane I keep the throat as fine as possible too. You shouldn't be hogging of a bunch of wood with each pass. That's what a scrub plane (or a planer!) is for.

If it's not a fine throat opening, the shaving gets broken off ahead of the iron. When you have it as sharp as you've ever made anything and the cap iron is fitting tight, close that mouth down as far as you think you dare and go a wee bit more. Then put a hunk of pine or poplar or basswood--something softish--in a vise and start to plane with the blade NOT EVEN TOUCHING THE WOOD. SLOOOOLY advance the iron until you are taking shavings you can see through. You might want to skew the plane a little so you are slicing the wood at an angle. That'll make helical shavings rather than little tightly wrapped drums. Keeps things cutting smoothly and staying sharper longer.

The idea is to produce a surface that's ready for finish, not a disaster that's full of tearout and needing a bunch of (shudder) sanding. If you have to struggle to force the plane forward, you are taking too heavy a cut or it's dull, or both. A well-tuned and sharpened handplane should be a joy. If you hate handplanes, go to work on one to make it sing. Find someone who has a bevy of planes that get used all the time and try one. You may see what it's all about.

Oh yeah. There's that little lever up top behind the iron that wiggles side-to-side. That's not to make it so you can take a shaving that's thicker on one side than the other. It's to adjust things so the shaving peeling off is consistently thin across it's width.

Let me add this: Do a search (google or whatever) for "Bob Smalser on handplanes." This guy is down The Sound from me, and not only knows about all this stuff, he has taken the time to create wonderful pieces and post 'em for free for all of us to learn more about tools and wood working. You'll be glad you did.

[Jerry V Lape]

Thanks Kermit,  that was precisely what I was confused about.  Tomorrow I will start tuning them up. 

[WadePatton]

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.


Warning: this topic doesn't need a "new topic". It bears repeating just as it is- for all to see, learn, enjoy and post more.  The subject matter doesn't expire.  New readers please go to the top of the thread and read down through this point.  This is not the beginning, and nevermind my personal ramblings.  I'm just newly infatuated by block planes. 


SO, i've never learned to use a proper block plane.  Just not from a wood-working background beyond basic carpentry, until I took a timberframe construction workshop.  We made a building with hand tools and interlocking joinery-no fasteners, no brackets.  I learned a lot about precision carpentry those few weeks.

Then I saw a dusty old plane in a pile of junk at Mom's recently.  She gave it to me because she doesn't do fine woodworking either-but she's built a few buildings.  

I cleaned up the tool, but didn't understand the proper setup.  As a straight-razor honer and user, i do know sharp and how to make simple edges that way.

I searched youtube and here and found a few videos.  This is my favorite so far:


After getting all "setup" I grabbed a piece of pine from a shipping container and ...

@!*%?&, not much success right off-grab chatter adjust clog adjust more same $#@*. So I grabbed a draw knife and knocked off some good curls, started thinking maybe i'm just a freehander sort of guy.  Then i hung the grain with the draw knife and dug in-whoops.  Maybe there is something _TO_ these planes.    I thought i might tweak more on it.

SO i messed around and twiddled with the setup of the plane (a Stanley copy about 8" long) and BOOM it happened.  Started getting great curly curls from the pine.  Oh that's nice, real nice. Main problem was that I had the chip breaker too close to the edge (i think in thousandths mostly, and these wood guys been talking in fractions.)

I couldn't stop there, I picked up a roughly split 4x4 hunk of fresh Osage (the next handy thing) and clamped it (in the machinist vise).  Thinking this can't work, Osage is such the bad boy.

But it did.  Now I have a floor full of bright yellow curls now and a somewhat flattened surface of BOdock (as we call it 'round here).

So the point is that simple wood-working tools aren't always that simple to figger out and employ, but can be quite delightful if you get them set up and properly sharped*.  I now have a new tool to enjoy-for the cost of education (online) and some time re-furbishing.  If you've never learned the plane, I highly recommend learning and trying 'em out.

*sharped, word for the weekend-expires on Monday. Try it, it's fun.

[kaintuck]

 
I have a addiction.......drawknives and wood planes.......

I admit it.....

Marc n tomtom

[Sweeney]

Wade, thanks for the inspiration - just what the doc ordered for my ambivalence to add even more process to the process of gunbuilding. I have suspected that hand-planes would be the type of organic engagement that I seek and by-@!*% you have convinced me. I can now instruct my auction-addicted wife (I wither at them) to keep her eyes open for a discarded, relic plane.

[J Henry]

  Hand tools of any type,,I have shelves filled with many cutting hands tools and saws for ever and when I see another it comes home with me.

[PPatch]

I use several block planes, small ones, for stock shaping, very handy and quick. I have on order a Standley #4 Sweet Heart which after the usual fussing and tuning I hope to make into my workhorse go-to plane. This fellow, Paul Sellers, is worth watching for his finesse with a plane:



In this vid he shows how to turn an older Standley #4 into a scrub plane.

dave

PS: I've posted this link before but it is one source for old planes: http://www.supertool.com/forsale/feb2015list.html

[Kermit]

Sweeney--have her watch for a cast iron plane marked "Stanley" on the iron or cap iron and "Bailey" on the front of the body. The ones you want for a starter will be a #4 or #5, or a #3 if you get lucky. Either smooth or corrugated sole, it makes little difference.

There are a lot of old cheap knockoffs of Stanleys out there, but if someone else is doing the purchasing, you can easily wind up with a dog that won't hunt, no matter how much work you put in. There are some great finds to be had, but you need some knowledge and luck to find and get them.

Paul Sellers is a great role model. I'm sure the makers of new high end planes in all their infinite variations must hope we never find him. He shows us all how much excellent work we can get done with one old Stanley #4, stone stock, properly tuned and sharpened.

[WadePatton]

Oh good gravy, been watching that Paul fella all morning.  Going to make a mallet or two now...

here's part one:

[David R. Pennington]

Planes are like saws, they won't work if they aren't set up right. It is well worth the time to learn how to properly sharpen and tune the tools. I hired an old country carpenter to help me frame my house when I first got married. He was telling me a story about a job he was working on with some of the big city guys who looked down on him. One day at lunch he was dressing the teeth on his hand saw after hitting a nail cutting plates out of door openings. Half a dozen of the "professional" carpenters wanted him to sharpen their saws. His reply was that I wouldn't call myself a carpenter if I couldn't maintain my own tools.

[Sweeney]

Kermit, thanks for the specifics. Otherwise my wife would likely be returning with armloads of useless planes.

[Bob Roller]

Planes are like saws, they won't work if they aren't set up right. It is well worth the time to learn how to properly sharpen and tune the tools. I hired an old country carpenter to help me frame my house when I first got married. He was telling me a story about a job he was working on with some of the big city guys who looked down on him. One day at lunch he was dressing the teeth on his hand saw after hitting a nail cutting plates out of door openings. Half a dozen of the "professional" carpenters wanted him to sharpen their saws. His reply was that I wouldn't call myself a carpenter if I couldn't maintain my own tools.

Sort of like a machinist that owns machines he can't fix when they break down or at least patch up until a proper fix can be made.

Bob Roller

[David R. Pennington]

Bob, when I took high school metal shop class one of my projects required the use of a shaper. When I asked for instruction on operating this machine he handed me the 1920's era manual to read. After I told him I thought I understood how to operate it he said good, but you have to fix it first, it's been broken for several years. I had to remove, grind and weld some broken brackets, reassemble and set up clearances before I could start on my project.

[JCKelly]

"a little wooden one that I made out of an old rasp and some stock scraps . . .doesen't work"

Rasps are, or were, made of only medium carbon steel, with a light case put on during heat treatment. Particularly a farrier's rasp. Occasionally the farrier has to Get the Horse's Attention, and a brittle high carbon rasp might break when gently tapping the beast's hoof.

Old Nicholson files were 1095. Use them pretty much as-is, maybe with a 300 - 350F temper in Wife's oven (when she's out). Will take & hold an edge better than any rasp. Really old pre-1980 Black Diamond files were best.

Thanks for the woodtreks URL

[WadePatton]

Thank for that info JCK.

Hey have we posted this video one yet?  It's the best one.

Here Mr. Sellers demonstrates how important it is that you rush out and buy the most expensive planes on the market, how old stuff is junk and will never work properly.

featuring PLANE CAM!!!

[Kermit]

Wade, if you're still iced in and the coffee pot is full, there's a YouTube called something like "Restoration of a Stanley #4 Bench Plane" that shows it all. Runs about an hour and 50 minutes.  

I am amazed that you can jam your tongue so far into your cheek, Wade. Paul will let you spend all you want on a plane, but shows clearly that you can do very good work with what he calls a "cheapo" Stanley.

[Nordnecker]

I'm a plane junkie, myself. Prolly got 60 or so, from el cheepo's , Stanley Bailey's #2 through 8, lot's of wooden moulders and joining planes, scraper planes, a #55 with all the blades, spokeshaves both metal and wooden, and one Lie-Neilsen rabbet plane. I could go on and on. Most are users. I almost bought a Norris smoother one time, wish I had.
They are pretty useless without a proper bench to hold the wood still without clamps and such in your way.
But one thing is for certain. Not all wood is suitable for planing. In other words, that piece of "whitewood " you just bought at Lowe's isn't the same as wood they were planing by hand 50 or 100 yrs ago. And that's a fact, Jack.

If you ever have the chance to use a well-tuned plane on a piece of clear,old growth white pine or such it is an eye opener. I have demonstrated hand-tool use at 18th century workshops and I always select just the right pieces of wood. Man, when you produce a perfect, unbroken curl of wood about 8 feet long, the people just smile and ooh and ahh and think it's magic.

The wooden molders, filetsters, dadoes, etc are my favorites to use. I like the miriad of shavings they produce. I have a really long wooden jointer that is all over the metal bodied ones. The 55 is a joke. Love the #40, though.

A planed surface tells a story. Even under 100 yrs of paint, like on the back of an old church pew, you can see those faint tell-tale marks left behind. This surface is honest and warm, unlike a sanded suface that is, well, you know….

I'll get off the soap-box, now. My soap box is hand-planed.

[Acer Saccharum]

Sorry if you're tired of seeing this one.

But this sharpening trick has saved me countless hours of sharpening. Grinding a perpendicular face on your iron turns your plane into a wood eater that doesn't tear out curly, cuts with or against the grain with impunity. Really great for roughing down ramrods, and finishing them up with a scraper.

With this modification, you can use the cheapest little old crappy plane with a wide throat.

[WadePatton]

Wade, if you're still iced in and the coffee pot is full, there's a YouTube called something like "Restoration of a Stanley #4 Bench Plane" that shows it all. Runs about an hour and 50 minutes.  
...

No amount of "iced in" and coffee or beer is going to get me to watch that sort of video straight through.  

I'll pick through 25 more to find 2 or 3 good ones in that amount of time-maybe more.  Skipped through and only saw one point to note--how far is "beyond" his patience to flatten.  If it's beyond his patience, then I got NO biz messin' with it.  The fella surely loves his planes, but is too "measured" for my attn span.

Mr. Sellers has me interested in going back (now that i know how to use one and what to look for) to check out those wooden planes I've passed by so many times at the antique store.  Only two reasons why they're still there: technical faults or "optimistic" pricing.  I hope that I can figger out which one it is.  

Plane Cam!  Seriously folks if you never watch any video WRT wood whackin' ever before or after-you should artta see that one. Plane Cam!

(a few postes above this one)

I'm up to 3.5 planes now from zero a few days ago.  One is an old simple 4-part "pocket plane" (that's been kicked around by this family for 30+ years) then 2.5 more from "surplus" boxes from estate sales.  I been making tools from junk tools long time.  


Hey Tom, yes I made notes of that the first time i saw it.  I'll give that a go at some point,  could knock a little time off fixin' a damaged iron.