Author Topic: Old eyes & open sights... again.  (Read 36137 times)

Harnic

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Old eyes & open sights... again.
« on: September 27, 2010, 01:08:58 AM »
Most of us on the wrong side of 50 battle regularly with shooting open sights.  It's a physical impossibility to view a rear sight, front sight, & target if you wear glasses.  Well, I bought a Merit Optical Attachment for my glasses a couple years ago, but found it very distracting stuck on my glasses.  I went shooting with a friend on Friday afternoon during a torrential downpour, the lighting was horrible!  I popped the Merit Optical Attachment on & all of a sudden I could see both sights & the target clearly!  My groups, which have been less than stellar with my flintlock tightened up dramatically!  I know guys who stick a piece of electrical tape to their glasses with a hole poked in it, but the ability to adjust the aperture is imperative to allow for changing light conditions.  For any of you who are having the the same trouble, please give it a try!  It works wonders!

Daryl

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 02:45:07 AM »
Looking through an aperture certainly helps sharpen objects, which is why it is used on iron sight competitions. Being attached to the glasses should be allowed almost anywhere.

Glad you found something that works for you, Harry.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 06:21:02 PM by Daryl »

Scott Semmel

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 04:26:03 AM »
"Looking through an aperture certainly helps sharpen objects, which is why it is used on iron sight competitions. Being attached to the glasses should be allowed almost anywhere."
Now wouldn't ya just think that would be the case. But never underestimate folks ability to make silly decisions.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 06:21:20 PM by Daryl »

Harnic

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 06:35:15 AM »
Well, it's a waste of powder for me to shoot without this unit, so if such misguided rules are in place I'll just watch & take pictures.  Their loss not mine.  ;)  In a time when we are having troubles attracting new shooters, the last thing event planners should do is discourage the old ones!  Having an aperture attached to your glasses offers no advantage over young eyes.  It's still open sights, just sharpened up for tired eyes!  :D
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 06:38:00 AM by Harnic »

Al Lapp

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 07:44:33 AM »
For target shooting I bought a pair of glasses for a buck at the dollar store. They work great, sights nice and sharp target slightly on the fuzzie side. Tried hunting with them, ended up getting pretty dizzie.   Al

Daryl

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 06:49:20 PM »
Suffering from the same sight problems, I can fully understand Harry's problem and the solution he's arrived at.  I see no problem with rules - however if there are, we'll handle them as they arrise. There is no reason to get worked up over it at this point in time.

Roger Fisher attends probably more shoots than most - does he have an opinion or in-sight as to rules around Pa?

doug

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 08:28:05 PM »
      I wear a pair of glasses that focus at about 3' (not bifocal)  They allow me to see the sights 100% and the target around 90%.  It dramatically improved my score although I am still a lousy shot :>(  I usually take my regular glasses along as well so that I can see what the target actually is on the longer shots

cheers Doug

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2010, 09:14:45 PM »
Suffering from the same sight problems, I can fully understand Harry's problem and the solution he's arrived at.  I see no problem with rules - however if there are, we'll handle them as they arrise. There is no reason to get worked up over it at this point in time.

Roger Fisher attends probably more shoots than most - does he have an opinion or in-sight as to rules around Pa?
At my age and cataracts slowly crawling across both my eyes, I find the open sights still working for me except for the past couple or three months I notice that I have to blink like crazy to clear up the target.  Among others we shot a skull target with the object being hitting the eye/eyes or nose yesterday.  This skull ended up having four blurry eyes and I found the upper eye was the real one/ones.... ::)  That's the best way to describe it.  I find that shaders do help in showing contrast in the sight picture.  Although I have a set or 2 of the holed tape shoved in the shooting box - I do not use them.  Reason- If I get used to a crutch like that I'll have a terrible time if I shoot in or at a shoot that forbids their use.  So, I'll soldier on.   

Many if not most of the clubs in our commonwealth have rules against the merit disk; but not all of them.   And I know that some shooters use them kinda on the sly.  I usually keep my trap shut about it, which isn't easy ;) 

Our own club in E Penna. flyer states: "Shaders permitted in log matches.  Optical aides or holed tape on eyeglasses not allowed except in BP cartridge matches..."  Reason we did this many yrs ago was due to a certain shooter that shot on the Int'l Team would use the merit eye disk at the smaller shoots and really did not have to.  He could have (and did) shoot rings around most of us.  So we went to that rule to 'even the field'.

That rule deserves a 2nd look. 

Harnic

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 12:11:22 AM »
Doug, I've heard several folks that use your method with reasonable results out to at least 50 yards.  I use my computer glasses for pistol shooting out to 25 yards & it works well.  I'll have to try them for shooting my flintlock.  All my modern rifles either have scopes or aperture sights so I have no problems shooting them unaided.

Roger, it's too bad some folks have to win at any cost & cheat, it messes it up for those who do need the field leveled a bit.  I too avoid arguing the point at a shoot & choose to sit them out when rules handicap me too much.  I usually have just as much fun watching as shooting & someone needs to record the events with camera! ;)

Offline Simon

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 01:10:52 AM »
I have found that if I ignore the rear sight and concentrate on the front sight I do much better.  I have been doing this all my shooting life.  As a firearms instructor I have tried to explain this to hundred of students, some get it, some don,t.  

Think of the rear sight as a window and just look through it.  Your eye will automatically center the front sight in the rear notch.  Then you are just trying to place the front sight on the target.  I still use this method at age 72 and my eyes reflect my age.  

Obviously I don't shoot as well as I did when I was a master class pistol shooter and was shooting  black powder for fun, but I still shoot better than most shooter my age.  I am not saying this as  a brag, but in hopes some of you will give this a try.  Do some dry firing as practise and see if it helps.

Mel
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Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 01:47:42 AM »
Harry,
Our local club had the "no merit disk" rule for many years until  it was changed recently. Some of us use the disk, others use a piece of tape but no one uses anything with optics in it, other than their normal eyeglasses. Between macular degeneration, cataracts and "maturity", a lot of us need a little help. We decided it was more important to keep everyone shooting that wants to, than it was to fuss over seemingly insignificant rules that create more handicaps than good.
Mark
Mark

Daryl

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 02:02:48 AM »
Another sight that helps with blurring eye's is the wide shallow Express-type sight - shot with a bead front. A blurry blade is almost impossible to use, but a blurry bead works. You know the ball hits in the middle of the blurry bead, whereas the top of a blurry front blade is impossible to discer to many older eyes.

Offline Roger B

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 02:41:29 AM »
Jagge shooting glasses are the answer, but only where they would be allowed.
Roger B.
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2010, 04:30:55 PM »
Another sight that helps with blurring eye's is the wide shallow Express-type sight - shot with a bead front. A blurry blade is almost impossible to use, but a blurry bead works. You know the ball hits in the middle of the blurry bead, whereas the top of a blurry front blade is impossible to discer to many older eyes.
A wider blade 'seems to help'; but how wide can you go ::) ???

Offline Kermit

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2010, 06:14:09 PM »
Coupe of things: One is to shoot smoothbores--no rear sight. Another is to place the rear sight as far forward as you dare. There exist originals with the rear sight well ahead of the ramrod entry. I've done this on my last two and it helps a bunch.

When folks speak of being able to see pistol sights, have someone measure the eye to rear sight distance while you're holding you pistol. Now the same with your rifle. See?

Next time you get new glasses, save the old ones for shooting, and place that tape where it works and leave it there. Use it when allowed. And hey, let those folks with 30 year old eyes use 'em too!

I'm wondering about "accommodations." Any rules against other devices needed by the old and infirm? I'm with the thinking that we need to continue the possibilities for all comers as long as possible. Of course, I have NO vested interest here... ;D
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

northmn

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2010, 06:23:42 PM »
Another sight that helps with blurring eye's is the wide shallow Express-type sight - shot with a bead front. A blurry blade is almost impossible to use, but a blurry bead works. You know the ball hits in the middle of the blurry bead, whereas the top of a blurry front blade is impossible to discer to many older eyes.

They work for me and permit continued shooting.  Another old trick is to put a slit in the bottom of the U of the rear sight whcih draws in more light.  I ahve gotten rid of all the old "fine sights" I used to use and now use a 1/8 bead and a modification Express type sight.  The point on concentrating on the front sight is the one used by champion practical pistol shots.  It helps if the front sight is one you can see.

DP

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2010, 06:25:34 PM »
Coupe of things: One is to shoot smoothbores--no rear sight. Another is to place the rear sight as far forward as you dare. There exist originals with the rear sight well ahead of the ramrod entry. I've done this on my last two and it helps a bunch.

When folks speak of being able to see pistol sights, have someone measure the eye to rear sight distance while you're holding you pistol. Now the same with your rifle. See?

Next time you get new glasses, save the old ones for shooting, and place that tape where it works and leave it there. Use it when allowed. And hey, let those folks with 30 year old eyes use 'em too!

I'm wondering about "accommodations." Any rules against other devices needed by the old and infirm? I'm with the thinking that we need to continue the possibilities for all comers as long as possible. Of course, I have NO vested interest here... ;D
Can't forget our shooter Ollie Solt and how he hit the egg at 75 yds off hand with his T/C Flinter at age 96 (Ollie not the egg) I don't recall him wanting to use an optical aide... ::)  Of course, he didn't have to hit that egg the 2nd time...  I only hope that I can still stand up if I live that long.  btw Ollie is now 97..........

That 'rule' will be voted on in or out at our next annual meeting...

Offline Collector

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2010, 06:55:34 PM »
Creating a level field as regards eye sight in competition shoots:

1.)  No contact lenses will be permitted.

2.)  Shooters who wear eyeglasses, with corrective lenses, will not wear them for shooting and will place their eyeglasses on a table. 

3.)  Shooters who do not wear glasses, will then pick up eyeglasses, randomly (no experimenting,) from the table and wear them for shooting.

4.)  Only targets WITHOUT multiple hits or those targets which DON'T exceed the allowable number for multiple shot events, will be scored.

Should just about do it, I reckon.  :P

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2010, 07:37:00 PM »
I once had a pair of clip on auxilliary lenses that I wore over my regular prescription glasses that allowed me to see the rifle sights clearly.    Later, I handed the prescription glasses with the aux lenses clipped on to an optometrist and he made me a set of lenses optically equivalent to the regular/aux combo and mounted them in a set of wire frames that looked as old-timey as we could find.  Worked great for several years until my vision shifted with age.

As you age, you tend to become more far-sighted, so over the last few decades I've gone from being very nearsighted to slightly farsighted.  The last two years, I've shot rifle and pistol without any corrective lenses.   I very recently experimented on pistol shooting with wearing a set of off-the-rack reading glasses (0.75 diopter which should have a focal length of 1.33 meters or about 4 feet).   I get a really sharp sight picture, although the bullseye at both 25 and 50 yds is a bit fuzzy.   

Weaker reading or computer screen glasses, 0.25 and 0.50 diopter, are available online around $25.   I'm wondering if a set of those would make for a better rifle sight picture. 

Bottom line, if you tell your optometrist or eye doctor that you're a shooter,  how far the front and rear sights are in front of your eye when you sight, and at what distances the target is, he may be able to  make you up a prescription or suggest an off-the-rack reading glass solution.   If he can, then you don't have to bother with aperture disks, tape, or dog soldiers enforcing questionable sighting aids rules.

Harnic

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2010, 08:07:25 PM »
Creating a level field as regards eye sight in competition shoots:

1.)  No contact lenses will be permitted.

2.)  Shooters who wear eyeglasses, with corrective lenses, will not wear them for shooting and will place their eyeglasses on a table. 

3.)  Shooters who do not wear glasses, will then pick up eyeglasses, randomly (no experimenting,) from the table and wear them for shooting.

4.)  Only targets WITHOUT multiple hits or those targets which DON'T exceed the allowable number for multiple shot events, will be scored.

Should just about do it, I reckon.  :P

Now we're getting somewhere!  I like this idea G!

Offline bgf

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2010, 01:58:10 AM »
It is impossible for anyone, no matter their age, to see both sights and the target in perfect focus simultaneously, but it does get worse with age.  The "disk", which is really a small aperture, increases your vision's depth of field and is a real advantage, truly an optical device though it works through the mechanism of diffraction rather than the refraction we normally associate with optical devices such as scopes.  I don't begrudge the device to people with real difficulty seeing, but it seems unfair when people with average corrected vision use it.  I would say let your conscience be your guide:  If you can't compete without it, no matter how much practice and how many legal sight types you try, then go for it.  On the other hand, if you would consider it unfair for someone else to do exactly what you are doing, then don't do it:).  I think the rules against these type of things are due to people going to ridiculous lengths to win glory and a pound of bacon (or whatever the prize is) :).

Offline Kermit

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2010, 03:31:19 AM »
Some of us are old enough to actually remember cameras that used FILM. And even older ones will recall when shutter and aperture settings had to be made manually. Some of those will remember something called "depth of field," which refers to how much of the subject area will appear to be in focus. A larger opening allowed for a faster shutter speed--for moving targets. A smaller opening gave greater focal depth, at the price of a slower shutter speed risking shake and blur.

Yer eyeballs have a little hole that you look through, and that hole gets smaller in bright light. Aids in shooting, don't you know. You can choose to shoot only in bright sunshine, and never on cloudy days or in the shade. :P

Try it sometime. Take a look at your sight picture in dim light and then in bright light. Ain't that somethin'?  :o
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

roundball

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2010, 04:47:00 AM »
I know pistol, trap, and skeet shooters who wear yellow tinted shooting glasses even on bright days for the purpose of minimizing their iris to get a larger depth of field in relatively sharp focus
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 04:48:06 AM by roundball »

California Kid

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2010, 07:02:06 AM »
Kermit, I shoot with a digital camera and always set appeture and shutter manually. That must make me really old! HA! HA!

Offline bgf

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Re: Old eyes & open sights... again.
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2010, 01:52:21 AM »
I just got the October Muzzleblasts, and there is an interesting "Wilderness Writings" column on testing a story about a dim-sighted, old long hunter's primitive sighting aid -- strip of paper tied around front of barrel and used simply by centering in rear sights, if I'm understanding it correctly.  Worked much better than expected for the author.  Cheap and easy to try.