Author Topic: Can you help ID this maker -- G B ** new photos of nose cap**  (Read 11249 times)

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Can you help ID this maker -- G B ** new photos of nose cap**
« on: September 28, 2010, 10:47:01 PM »
Can any of you help ID the maker of this rifle. It is signed on the top barrel flat as "G" then a small 0 then "B". The barrel is swamped approx. 1.062 at the breech, .850 at the smallest point and .940 at the muzzle. It is 47 inches long and a 7/16 (.437) drill bit easily slips down the bore. It is iron mounted and the buttplate is 1 5/8 wide and 4 7/8 tall.
Dennis













« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 03:48:06 AM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B **added 2 more photos**
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2010, 11:40:53 PM »
Here are a couple more photos. Notice the returns on the trigger guard are not rounded like typical E TN guards. Also notice the TN style triggers (earlier photos).
Dennis






« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 12:41:43 AM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline G-Man

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 06:12:18 AM »
This is a dandy rifle.  I will have to see if there are similarities to the iron and brass stepped wrist guns that Wallace attributes to a maker with the same initials, that he featured in his Muzzle Blasts articles. The iron one is marked with what appears to be the initials "GB".

Guy

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 03:30:11 PM »
Nice gun. I don't think I'd shoot drill bits out of it though. ;)
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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 04:51:21 PM »
Is it possible it could be George Bean, son of William? Stock don't look like the few pics I have seen of other Bean guns though.Is there any guns signed by George, to compare?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 04:54:30 PM by msmith »

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 05:17:09 PM »
Dennis- Nice Iron Mounted Rifle!  A new acquisition or just looking?
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 06:53:00 PM »
Quote
Dennis- Nice Iron Mounted Rifle!  A new acquisition or just looking?
Its my latest acquisition. Just trying to figure out what area it might have originated in. It has been considered Rowan County NC, E TN and SW VA. I personally think its SW VA but those TN triggers baffle me.
Dennis
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Offline G-Man

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 07:00:51 PM »
This is a pretty well known (and very cool!) rifle.  Myron Carlson copied the hardware and triggers from it many years ago. 

In his Muzzle Blasts articles, Wallace has shown the buttstock of another gun that looks to maybe be by the same hand, that has a captured lid box.  It is interesting to note that he has also shown a stepped wrist iron mounted gun in his articles that is signed with what appears to be "GB" and its brass mounted sister that also appears to have come from the same shop. 

This is a great, relatively early iron mounted Appalachian rifle.  I would agree that it probably came from southwestern Virginia or East Tennessee.

Thanks for posting the photos Dennis.  It's fun to see these ones that have never really been shown in the books before.

Guy

Offline bgf

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 08:47:34 PM »
It could be SWVa or ETn. or NW NC.  In Kentucky Rifles and Pistols 1750-1850, there are a number of brass mounted rifles signed XB, where X is a variety of initials, assigned to that area seemingly at random, but they all bear some resemblance to each other.  Personally, I hope it is the same GB to whom Guy refers, although the trigger guard and stock are a different design on that one, possibly quite a bit earlier.  There was a lot of movement back and forth within that region, which although it seems to cover 3 states is quite small.

Guy,
I was waiting for you to see this.  I believe the lock and buttplate on this one are also later than the GB Iron mounted rifle, but it does seem to bear more than a coincidental resemblance.

BGC

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2010, 12:27:26 AM »
Although I have never seen one to compare this rifle to, but I wouldn't count out George Baker from Monongalia County (Morgantown) WV.  Grease holes are rare even for WV rifles.

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2010, 02:02:07 AM »
Quote
Grease holes are rare even for WV rifles.
But not at all rare for SW VA/Western NC and Eastern TN.
Dennis
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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2010, 05:16:08 AM »
True enough. Especially the TN guns.

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2010, 05:49:14 AM »
Dennis, what does the muzzle look like?  Does it have a nose cap?

Bill
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Offline G-Man

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2010, 02:22:02 PM »
I think there's enough on this rifle to comfortably place it in the southern Appalachians.  Where exactly?  Could be anywhere from Botetourt County anywhere down as far southwest Tennessee or perhaps even on the North Carolina side of the line. But my guess would still go with  SW Virginia, or East Tennessee.

Although I think it is from Virginia or Tennessee, I will throw this out there - Myron's hardware that he copied from the gun, and Ron Borron's drawing of the rifle, referred to it as Rowan County North Carolina.  Myron told me that the attribution was due in part to the unusual arrangement for the front trigger guard screw and triggerplate.  The triggerplate extends up beneath the forward finial of the guard just a tad, and the front guard screw passes up through the triggerplate and anchors into the wood above.  Myron said he had seen this arrangment on several other Rowan County guns.  I am not familiar enough with Rowan County rifles to know more about this feature.  The sideplate shape is consistent with some North Carolina pieces as well, but also found in Virginia and Tennessee.  Also, one more thing you can see in the photos that was sort of altered a bit in the line drawing is the slightly down-turned (actually undercut would be a better way to describe it) droop to the rear finials of the lock and sideplate panels, which also is sometimes found on Deep River and nearby NC guns.  So I would not rule out the North carolina possibility, but I think Virgnia or Tennessee more likely.

This rifle has strong similarities to several iron mounted guns Wallace has featured in his Muzzle Blasts articles - some with stepped wrists , others without - and I feel ties with that group of rifles.  I feel it is a great example of a relatively early "mountain rifle" made in the era when the gunsmithing families were still developing their styles and still emulating the hardware styles being made farther east and north, and being brought into the region.  If I had to guess, I would put it somewhere in the 1800-1810 era, maybe give or take a few years on either end.  That places it in rare company.

Congratulations Dennis - you got a great one!

Guy
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 02:30:52 PM by Guy Montfort »

Offline woodsrunner

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2010, 02:42:22 PM »
Good Lord! I didn't realize it at first until I read Guy's comments, but I have an exact duplicate of this rifle in .45cal that Dave Dodds made for me several years ago based on Ron's drawings! What you take for the original, Dennis  ;D

Offline G-Man

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2010, 03:25:35 PM »
Woodsrunner - I remember admiring your Dodds rifle at the CLA a few years ago.  What a superb gun - really shows his talent building such a nice rifle even though it was a style outside of his normal area.  You have a treasure as it has the work of Mr. Carlson and Mr. Dodds built into it.

Guy
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 02:53:27 PM by Guy Montfort »

scooter

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2010, 07:47:37 PM »
I can't assist in ID but I can assure yopu NOT George Baker of Morgantown == having taught at WVU in Mgntwn for 40 years and studied those guns.

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2010, 04:02:16 AM »
Quote
Dennis, what does the muzzle look like?  Does it have a nose cap?

Bill
Bill,
It has a nose cap you can see it in the last photo.
Dennis
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2010, 04:10:13 PM »
???
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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2010, 04:16:05 PM »
Look at the Pic of the Initials again.  There seems to be a faded B just to the left of the GB

    Rich

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2010, 10:43:53 PM »
I don't see the nose cap either.

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2010, 12:40:51 AM »
Sorry I thought I had uploaded one in the last batch. Will do it when I get back home late Monday.
Dennis
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B ** added photos **
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2010, 08:00:10 PM »
Per request photos of the nose cap.
Dennis










« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 08:09:33 PM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Can you help ID this maker -- G B ** new photos of nose cap**
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2010, 01:02:19 AM »
Thanks!  I guess nosecaps are nosecaps but I wanted to compare it to a local rifle.

Thanks,

Bill
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320