Oval head screws

[Red Owl]

Most of the screws I've seen on original guns were flat head (I think). In any event- are oval head screws PC?

[kenL]

Not sure if they are pc or not. Sorry I didnt mean  to jump your post, but I would love to know where to buy them by the box if anyone knows?

[tallbear]

unplated oval and flat head screws in bulk. Link;http://www.kennedyhardware.com/plain-steel-oval-head-wood-screws-sc-steel-oval.html

Mitch

[Jim Kibler]

Many of the screws on originals are oval headed.  It seems the height of the oval is typically less than that of  commercially available screws today.  It's a simple matter to make a flat head screw into one with a slight oval or to lower the height of commercial oval head screws.

[Dave B]

The problem here is we are having to judge if the original we are looking at  has had some screws replaced or not. I have been told that no body used brass screws and all guns with brass screws should be restored with steel screws to be PC. I have seen multiple rifles with oval headed screws at the tang and patch box. This leads me to believe that this was not un common but is it really true? I have taken some pains in the last couple of rifles to make my patch box screws oval headed as well as the tang screw. It was a pain but the results were worth it.

[Jim Kibler]

Dave,

The presence of oval headed screws is so common on existing originals, I don't think there is any doubt as to their use.

Jim

[JTR]

I agree with Jim on the use of oval head screws, and that the dome was less than modern screws.
To de-dome them some, just chuck them up in something that turns (electric drill, lathe) spin them and file them down a bit. If you really want to go for the 'original' look, make up some screws with the slot slightly off center.
John

[Red Owl]

So oval screws are PC, good cause that's what I was using when suddenly I got thinking about the issue.

On the brass, I've not yet seen any on rifles but I am told that brass screws were used on some Sheffield knives in the early 1800's.  The deal was the screw attached two scales and was then filed off- to look sort of like a brass pin.

[Pete G.]

They have unplated screws at this site.
http://www.blacksmithbolt.com

[kenL]

Thanks for the information.

[Kermit]

Brass screws are evil. The ones that come with (expensive) furniture hardware that I buy are $#@*--not to mention that they are those funny cross-headed screws. I toss them all in a bucket and recycle 'em. I'll use "brass" screws if the client insists, but I buy marine bronze with slots. I prefer to use slotted steel with brass hardware, and blue the heads. Gotta learn to fire blue one of these fine days.

IMHO, brass is properly held with steel screws.

[Brent]

Both TOTW and MBS offer oval head screws in a number of different sizes.

While on the subject of screws, is there a standard screw size that should be used in building - #8 for the buttplate, #4 for the patchbox - or is a range acceptable such as either #4, #5, or #6 screws for the patchbox?

[Ryan McNabb]

I used to fuss and grieve over patchbox screws but now I just use flat head screws, get them down 95% of the way and knock the flatness off by chucking in a drill and hitting it with a fine file.  Polish with a little sandpaper.  I personally think the visual and tactile interest that slightly raised screws provide, is very attractive.  There are places where it's obvious that the original maker really concentrated on a perfectly flat screw, but rarely. 

And I don't time the slots, either - I think this is an inappropriate aesthetic for most American work. 

[Ryan McNabb]

Both TOTW and MBS offer oval head screws in a number of different sizes.

While on the subject of screws, is there a standard screw size that should be used in building - #8 for the buttplate, #4 for the patchbox - or is a range acceptable such as either #4, #5, or #6 screws for the patchbox?

Whether we choose to admit it or not, most longrifle work is copy work.  If you're working to a school, or a maker, look at the size they chose, and try to adhere to that.  Don't take these small details lightly.  If you're doing a true new-school piece, and are really "off the reservation", then you're free to use what you like (which you always are of course) but strive for a balanced size.  Most beginning makers seem to tend to use too small of a screw, I've noticed.  Don't be afraid of it - there's nothing ugly about a wood screw.

[Acer Saccharum]

The modern oval head screw has a higher dome than the screws I've seen on most original guns. But this can be an advantage if you're willing to work the screws a bit. The modern screw slots are also too wide.

Make yourself a peening fixture. A countersunk hole in a steel block will suffice. Peen the slots shut, then re-file and polish the dome. Re-cut the slots with a jeweler's screw slotting file.

[Curtis]

Here is another source:
http://www.blacksmithbolt.com/

[Red Owl]

Well I'm glad I asked the question. Instead of rounding a flat head screw wouldn't it be easier to start with an oval head and flatten it a bit? I have been sort of doing that anyway just because I thought the oval portion stuck up too high.
   In any event I still find as I continue to learn to remember to not overlook any detail, which is sure easy enough to do.

[Ryan McNabb]

The modern oval head screw has a higher dome than the screws I've seen on most original guns. But this can be an advantage if you're willing to work the screws a bit. The modern screw slots are also too wide.

Make yourself a peening fixture. A countersunk hole in a steel block will suffice. Peen the slots shut, then re-file and polish the dome. Re-cut the slots with a jeweler's screw slotting file.

This is good.  The big modern slot is one of the worst things I deal with on a day to day basis.  You could use the modern slot for the inevitable in/out/in/out of fitting a box or other part, then once it's finished, peen the slot shut and re-cut a proper slot.  The extra height of a modern oval head screw would be perfect, providing the extra material you need.  Thanks.

[Jim Kibler]

Ryan,

I hear what you are saying about wide screw slots.  I took a piece of barstock, drilled a hole through, slightly larger than the screw, and countersunk it.  The screw can be placed in the bar and peened while maintaining a decent shape.  I then use a knife file to re-cut.  I re-cut all the screws including lock screws so one screwdriver, that is filed to fit, works on all the screws.  It's more work, but makes things much better.  Can't take credit for the countersunk bar idea.  Heard it somewhere and found it worked pretty well.

[Ryan McNabb]

Thanks Jim - exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.  This is one of those "D'oh!" things for me - why didn't I think of it 10 years ago?

[Acer Saccharum]

Heard it somewhere and found it worked pretty well.

Jim, that's the 'collective memory' of gunbuilding at work. I don't know where I heard of the peening fixture, so I forgot. Then I thought that I invented it, but the little white angel of my conscience says 'shut the $#*! up, you ass'.