Author Topic: Which Drop To use.  (Read 5902 times)

LURCHWV@BJS

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Which Drop To use.
« on: October 06, 2010, 02:30:59 AM »
  I don't know If this would go in Building or Shooting.  I've been looking at the different shapes of stocks availible to me for my next project.  I've seen some with short drops asd some with well over 3in.  How does one determine which drop would be most appropriate for the shooter.

  I myself have a 15in pull being tall and lanky

  Just Curious

   Rich

BrownBear

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 07:22:17 AM »
Kinda depends on your cheekbones, whether the stock will have cast off, and how upright you like to shoot.  I've got prominent cheekbones, and here are a couple of examples in commercial rifles:  T/C Hawken stocks whap the snot out of my cheekbones, even with moderate loads in 54 cal.  Heavy loads in 62 cal really ring my bell.  The Lyman GPR on the other hand is a joy to shoot- no issues with the cheekbones.  I load stout loads in my 54, but of course there is no 62 for comparison.  The T/C Renegade, New Englander and Big Boar are right on the borderline with me in 62 cal, but no prob in 58 cal.  I've got a 58 cal GRRW Hawken that is a dream to shoot with any load.

Too many examples to digest, I know, but you can generate some pretty decent estimates simply by shouldering diverse styles and taking measurements.

California Kid

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 07:32:59 AM »
Draw some patterns on card board with different stock patterns and drops and your length of pull. Trace them out on 1/2"or so plywood and saw them out. use a nail for a trigger. Do it till the pattern suits and fits you.

Daryl

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2010, 12:33:43 PM »
Rich, keep in mind that different stock designs AND length require different drops at heal and comb to fit different anatomies.  Most Eastern US patterns have a much higher comb than heal, whereas the English and to a lesser extent, the German Jaeger have closer to the same drop at comb and heal.  The flat-topped stock tends to recoil away from the face or at least more straight back, whereas the angled stocks tend to lift the comb into the cheek bone.

The best case scenario is to try a bunch of different stocks to see what works.  Taylor keeps a record of stocks that fit and shoot well.  For instance, my English Sporting Rifle jumps to the shoulder much like a shotgun and points perfectly, sights aligned on target as soon as the stock comes into the shoulder, whereas my Lancaster designed stocked .45, takes more time to align the sights, but is also a comfortable stock to shoot, with more drop at comb and heal.  If in perhaps .69 calibre as well, the Lancaster would bite the face badly, but even with 200gr. of powder, the English designed rifle never tightens against the cheek - it actually drops off your cheek upon firing as it drives the shoulder down.

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2010, 04:54:34 PM »
Being 6' 3" or so, I like the Lancaster straight stock and can shoot any such all day and by the same token have a problem and stay away from the Lehigh curved style that tend to pound the ol cheek bone...  You mention that you like a 15" pull,unless you go about 7 foot tall that sounds long and awkward to shoot.  I try to end up with a pull of 13 1/2 or 13 5/8th.  I am however a bit of a stock crawler....

I am told that if a Lehigh is 'built' right it won't pound the shooter, I'm not sold on that idea since we are not usually shooting 'light' charges.... ::)

I would suggest you shoulder several (or more) rifles and find one that fits you nicely then check it's drop and pull and secure one with said drop and pull....!

Daryl

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2010, 07:02:54 PM »
I-too prefer 13 1/2" or a bit more. Nothing worse for offhand accuracy, than a stock that's too  long. Too short is OK. Too long is just plain difficult.  Shooting stance, ie: upright or crawling requires shorter or longer stocks- ie; as noted prior - stock design and shooter technique.

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2010, 01:43:05 AM »
It isn't just drop you must consider.  Length of pull, cast, pitch, sight height all work together.  A good place to start is with modern shotguns.  Compare them to see what is comfortable for you.  They have enough recoil to make the point and ones which don't fit will certainly speak up.  As for drop, the critical measure is not at heel or comb but where your face is positioned on the comb line.  In general however, a stock with a lot of drop at the heel is more likely to be a cheek thumper as recoil will rotate the gun around the low contact at the butt bringing it up sharper into your face. 

Offline Hank*in*WV

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2010, 03:01:37 AM »
There will be plenty of stocks for you to try at the LCS this weekend.
"Much of the social history of the western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good. . ." Thomas Sowell

northmn

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2010, 06:15:01 PM »
Stock fit is very individual.  Also allow for heavy clothing if for a hunting gun and if you have to wear heavy clothing.  I have a rifle that I may have to restock.  I can shoot it very well in shirt sleeves but it is a little long in my Novemeber hunting coat.  I am also wondering if age does not play in.  One good way to fit yourself is to take an old shotgun or rilfe and try taping on some add ons to see what fits.  Iron sights take more drop than a scope, something TC never considered when they made their rifles off of modern designs.  Some of the older rifles that were made to shoot iron also had more drop.

DP

ken

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2010, 01:21:01 AM »
I stand at 6ft2inchs .And I have built a few guns.I never make them over 14 inch pull.More like13and1/4to13and3/4. You can always shoot aa shorter gun but never one that is to long well! Ilike 3 1/4 to3 1/2in drop. good luck in your layout

Offline hanshi

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 01:28:30 AM »
One size, for sure, does not fit all.  Nuances in size, body shape, head/face dimensions, lop, etc, all add up to lots of different stock styles.  But there are lots of "schools" to chose from.  Being 5'4", a 13" lop works fine for me but 12-1/2" is perfect.  The T/C style stock does not come close to working for me.  The Lancaster and SMR are sighted in when I bring them to my shoulder, even with my eyes closed.  They are great regardless of caliber.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Daryl

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2010, 02:53:28 AM »
 Prone shooting needs a longer, higher healed stock - offhand needs a shorter stockm lower heal - that is why my Match rifle back in the 70's had an adjustable butt plate, both for height and for length.  We don't have that luxury with muzzleloaders, so we comprimize - most people shoot well with 13 1/4" to 13 5/8" - the 13 5/8" being for long necked individuals.

Modern American rifle stocks having down slanting, super high Chinese pillows for cheek rests and a demand for low mounted are mostly to blame for stock crawler's habits today.  These gun styles taught the young(boomers and younger) to crawl a stock to where if a stock isn't way too long for him or her, the shooters bloodies his nose with his thumb or cuts his eyebrow with the scope bell. Weatherby eye-brow - ever heard of it?  See, it was Roy, himself who restricted most people's ability to shoot well offhand today.  I see people shooting rifles with stocks way too long and their right shoulder is way back on an angle behind their shoulder blade, rifle butt way out on the arm when shooting offhand and thinking that's correct. NOT.  The gun should be brought to the shouder/arm joint for pointy butts, tucked into the shoulder pocket with flat butts, with the head high while looking (addressing) the target.  The head is not scrunched down over the comb and shoved forward. That stock crawling tilts the eyes too much, which puts your equilibrium out - your body then fights for balance rather than letting all your concentration fixate on the sights and target alignment.  The eyes should be as horizontal with the world as possible to maintain ballance. Watch an Olympic Shooter's stance - straight up and down, head held high, gun brought to his head, not head down onto a stock.  Comb heigh, heal height, toe height, sight height - all are important - best to try a lot of different guns of different patterns. Some require a bit nor drop and/or length - while others require just the reverse.

What all this diatribe is for, is to show that a heads-up attitude allows a shorter stock than many people have come to believe what is right for them.  It is also the position ACCURACY shooters adopt - ie: Olympic Offhand shooters - watch 'em.  Perhaps the long stock syndrome is due to shooting an adult's gun when young and mostly off the bench, I don't know.  I do know that many people will shoot better if they shoot with shorter stocks and learn to pull their right shoulder forward, stand erect, address the target, then place the butt into the pocket- either on the pec muscle for flat butts, or into the pocket of the shoulder/arm for hooks.  Standing thusly, not only improves offhand shooting, but also allows recoil to push the shoulder back, obsorbing recoil which also shoves the shoulder downward as it's attached to your body, and then pulls the comb down off the cheek, reducing or eliminating cheek bashing.  If the stock is too long, the arm is already at it's rear travel and the gun cannot recoil back and down, so the result is an upwards smack to the cheek. Stocks with to little drop at the comb are really bad for this.
  in my opinion, of course

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Which Drop To use.
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2010, 03:11:13 AM »
Rich,

If you are not sure of the details of stock fit, trying out different ones is probably best like Daryl said. The first measurements people give when talking about stocks is their height and sleeve length. While part of the equation, they are not anywhere near the top of importance.  Stance, style, facial structure, eye socket location,  shoulder and neck structure are all important factors.
A good starting point and probably available to you  is to use  a Remington 1100 for getting a general idea of muzzleloader (not the crecent off the shoulder type gun) fit.  It was designed in it's heyday to fit a high percentage of the populous. No cast, narrow comb and moderate drops. Notice "drops" and not "drop" because the two drops (at comb nose and at heel) create the drop where the cheekbone rests. Too high and you cant' get in the sights. Too low and and you end up resting the side of you face on the side of the gun to see over the breech. Pitch (angle of the butt from heel to toe) has a lot to do with fit and recoil as well.
If you have access to what is generically termed the early Lancaster as has been mentioned, it is also the perfect starting point as well.
Take whatever gun you have and use cardboard, electrical tape , foam, moleskin, etc. to raise the comb as needed or add any length.