Slug Gun Article (part 1)

[Larry Pletcher]

I just finished part 1 in a series on Slug Gun shooting.  slug guns have interested me for years, but this year the "mother of all slug guns" showed up.  The first article is a preamble to the big gun, discussing load processes, and photos of normal sized guns.  The final pic does include the 100+ lb monster.  That article will be completed some time next week.

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/blackpowder-slug-guns-precision-paper-punching-machinery.php



Regards,
Pletch

[Mike R]

Wow!  That is a"whole 'nuther" sport isn't it....My very first muzzleloader [1970]was an underhammer by Numerich [H&A], and not knowing anything about MLing, I took the advice of a gunsmith buddy; and we made a mold for conical flat based slugs for it, overloaded it, and I proceeded to fire very tight groups at 100 yds with a tang peep sight [I had 26-yr old eyes then]. It was likely the most accurate rifle I ever owned, but I traded it off a few years later....those monsters you show are something else and I have no doubt would shoot rings around my old H&A.

[Dan]

Larry, here's a Perry rifle, .56 caliber and 1,300 grains of lead when properly stoked.





Original box for accoutrements:



Still makin' smoke:

[Larry Pletcher]

Outstanding!!
It's good to hear that someone is shooting it.  I'd like to hear more about it.  Come to think of it I may have an article on the gun is a pile of old stuff.
Regards,
Pletch

[Daryl]

Makes me wonder if Taylor has any pictures of the underhammer bench-gun he built many years ago - 52 pounds, it was and 4 bore as we didn't know where to procure a rifled barrel that heavy.  With 300gr. of 2F, it would shoot about a 3foot group at 300 meters, not bad for having no rifling.  The 1" balls were cast in maple moulds- or did we finally make one out of aluminum?  The idea was to sleeve the tube with a fast twist rifled barrel, maybe .45, at some point.  Recoil was mild, but the gun moved 12", whether there was a shoulder or a hand behind the butt.  'It' also moved about 1/2 yard of dirt when the big balls hit.  Maybe could have scratched some grooves in it, except the guy who ordered it wanted it as a smoothie for some reason - I think?

That Perry rifle is really something - still shooting - what groups?

[Dan]

Larry, I can probably put you in touch with the owner if you're interested.  He purchased the gun some time back from Richard Hicks, bless his soul.  Rich  taught me more about slug guns than anyone and helped decode a Reinhard picket rifle I've been fooling with for several years. 

[smokinbuck]

Larry,
Great article, will look forward to part II. Had a friend that owned a P.A. Reinhart slug gun, with most of the tools, that P.A. was supposed to have used himself. It was sold at auction when the fellow passed on. Sorry, no pictures.
Mark

[Dan]

Makes me wonder if Taylor has any pictures of the underhammer bench-gun he built many years ago - 52 pounds, it was and 4 bore as we didn't know where to procure a rifled barrel that heavy.  With 300gr. of 2F, it would shoot about a 3foot group at 300 meters, not bad for having no rifling.  The 1" balls were cast in maple moulds- or did we finally make one out of aluminum?  The idea was to sleeve the tube with a fast twist rifled barrel, maybe .45, at some point.  Recoil was mild, but the gun moved 12", whether there was a shoulder or a hand behind the butt.  'It' also moved about 1/2 yard of dirt when the big balls hit.  Maybe could have scratched some grooves in it, except the guy who ordered it wanted it as a smoothie for some reason - I think?

That Perry rifle is really something - still shooting - what groups?

200 yards w/ 10-15 mph switching crosswind, the firing lane between two long berms, not the best of environments:

[Daryl]

Wind's a bummer- that centre 6 shots in the X sure is nice.  Stuff like this is an eyeopener for many people.  I thought it might have done better, but as above, wind's a bummer.  The vertical component in cross winds really hurts too.

[westerner]

200 yards w/ 10-15 mph switching crosswind, the firing lane between two long berms, not the best of environments:

Quote from Dan.

Shooting between earth berms is tough! The wind comes rolling over the tops and the windflags go all over. I'd much rather have the wind unobstructed. Even a stiff wind.


                                 Joe. 

[Kermit]

As a person who only knows the terms "slug gun" and "chunk gun," I'm really enjoying this. This is the sort of thing that brings new folks to some of these areas of our hobby/interest. I'm just flat fascinated!

[smylee grouch]

Slug gun, round ball bench, x-stix, and chunk gun shooting can be an educational trip to watch if you have never done so. If for no other reason than to see the consistency required to be good at it.    Gary

[Daryl]

Kermit, shooting off a bench is not as easy as many people think - sounds easy, but there are good as well as poor techniques.  good technique will cut group sizes to 1/3 of what poor techniques give.  How you sit, how you breath, all is important - seat height, rifle support, how the rifle is cheeked - all proper techniques must be learned. It's best to watch an accomplished "stool shooter" shoot, and emulate everything he's doing.

Shooting accuratel and with precision from rests are truely difficult shooting sports. This accuracy game is full of pitfalls, just as offhand shooting is. Prone position, even with a chunk is almost twice as hard as bench shooting & the groups show this.  Getting a 1", 10 shot group off a chunk from a rifle capable of shooting 1/2" 10 shot bench groups at the same range, would be very good shooting,   It's almost as good as getting 1/2", 10 shot groups off the bench at 50 yards with open sights off bags.

[Dan]

Wind's a bummer- that centre 6 shots in the X sure is nice.  Stuff like this is an eyeopener for many people.  I thought it might have done better, but as above, wind's a bummer.  The vertical component in cross winds really hurts too.

Daryl, the gun can shoot a lot better than that.  10 in the X-ring is not a great challenge or so the owner tells me.  As mentioned, though I might have understated the circumstances, the wind was a witch that day.  I thought it a nice effort myself but the owner was a little disappointed.

[Daryl]

New gun to you.  Bad wind - yes, 2 strikes right off the bat.  I would expect that with practise with that gun, more favourable wind conditions, you would get nothing less than 10 in the X.

[Dan]

It has a curious feature worth mention, that being something akin to microgroove rifling.  As I recall is has 12 lands and grooves, the lands being smoothly radiused and grooves seemingly shallow from my perspective....maybe .004-.005".  Fellow that shoots it actually shoots two different bullets, one being the 2 piece swagged at 1300 grains, the second being 900 grains cast.  He says the reduction in accuracy is a small price to pay for the attendant reduction of recoil when shooting the 900 grain bullets, which he was using that day.  The 900 grain version is on the far right, a 50 caliber 800 grain 2 piece swagged bullet stands next to it.

[Daryl]

Dan- do you know what the rifling twist is, on that rifle?

[Dan]

Sorry, I do not.

[Larry Pletcher]

Thank you all for your comments.  I especially liked the photos of the old slug guns.   I think it would be fun to speak with the owner of the Perry gun.

I'm starting work on part 2 tonight.   This will be on the huge Mitchell gun.  Most of George's proceedures are the same - just a much bigger gun to deal with.  He does use the chase patch method instead of strips.  I have step-by-step pics of this part.

One of my friends had a chance to shoot it this fall.  He said that it wasn't as bad as he thought.  The 100 lbs of weight  does make a difference.  A calculation for comparison says that shooting a 1785 gr bullet in a 100 lb gun would be similar to shooting a 550 gr bullet in a 31 lb gun if the velocities remained the same.  (This is based on a simple proportion and bears no resemblance to the real world.)  hmmm - have to think on that a minute- am I over looking something?

Regards,
Pletch

[Dan]

Awaiting his response to the request and will let you know asap.

Dan

[Daryl]

Looking foreward to seeing that gun, Pletch, and to the article.  TKS. Sorry for getting off on the Perry Gun tangent.

[Dan]

I'm going to guess Larry doesn't mind the excursion.  Hope not anyway or my name is Mudd.

 I don't know anything about this one.







Chase patched .50 caliber w/ perhaps a Mosslander barrel or made by Mosslander, not sure:



Same gun, scope built by Richard Hicks if memory serves correctly:



Note the stock's cast-on.  Rich was left handed.

[Dan]

~300 grains of BP goes poof under a patched round ball.  The shooter caught the aperture sight on the brow from this one.



The Iron Maiden, or pain redefined:



Details lost to time:



Polecat Porter Trophy



Picket rifle, maybe, not sure.  A Hicks scope

[Larry Pletcher]

Part 2 of the slug gun articles is uploaded.  This is all on the big Mitchell gun.  Probably one of the most fun I've worked on.

I just looked at the pics in the post above.  Thanks.  I think these old guns are really cool.

Regards,
Pletch   

[Dan]

Joe, awhile back I commented to SPG during a phone chat that "handsome" was not in the slug rifle list of definitions.  Interesting, fascinating, amazing, yes....but never handsome.  I'll give this to Mr. Brown, I think he out uglied the Iron Maiden with that one.