Author Topic: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry  (Read 10788 times)

jwh1947

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Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« on: October 14, 2010, 10:02:09 PM »
Some few of you may have been tuned into "family feud," our latest growth pains, I figure, on the Back Fence pot pourri threads.  Well, all that humble stuff aside, here's the real problem.

Serious, no jokes here.  If you are a builder, I want your say-so.

We all know the power of symbols.  Some golden-throated pseudo-scholars (OK, maybe it takes one to know one) will tell you that this C-scroll means this and that that S-scroll means thus, and that his infinite wisdom is infallible in interpreting it.  We all know at least one.  They share a glint of intelligence usually in at least one eye; that's the glass one.  But enough about my best friends...

I am here to do a serious reading of a contemp series of artistic motifs when, bound together, will be symbolically dramatic and unique...powerful even, perhaps enough to make some hurl in revulsion.  But the simple question at hand is, "Should I lower myself for pecuniary gain, prostitute myself once again for mere cash?"  

First, the research.  Here is what I found.  The client wants a Grim Reaper, faceless, ripping a Dyna Glide out of the flames of the Underworld.  Well,  I went to the local tattoo artist (46% of USA high schoolers now sport a 'too) for some patterns and assistance.  What a world; he produced about 50 Reapers that he, himself had done.  Not at all bad.  Then he said, "I never did a faceless one."

So off to Susquehanna HD Store to see if they had any old patches of a $#*! Rider.  Yes, they did.  Actually I had my choice, so I traced one there and bought the girl a coffee. Yes, I'm cheap.  

So, I have the whole design down for a cheeekpad.

So now, based on documented, primary, medically approved sources, I have my reservations.  

Everyone for centuries has held the symbol of the Reaper to be that of death.  Of this, no one would disagree; it is part of international culture.  We need not belabor it.  And the Harley from $#*!, somewhat of a motorcycle icon as well as part of the national Flag of California.  

But my friends it is the facelessness of the Grim Reaper, neither the Reaper itself, nor the cycle from $#*! flames, that will catch the eye of any abnormal psychologist, counseling therapist or psychiatrist...the facelessness, my friends.  In short, it suggests "no personality," "no self concept of worth,"  "no identity," "no expected cooperation," and at totally, "I don't care attitude."  

Any psychiatrist that sees a faceless doodle on a client's papers would be remiss in not noting it, as their DSM case supplements will attest.  I'm not making this stuff up; I used to do this work for food.

So there it is folks.  That's what the client wants on his .50 Cal Berks.  I got the room on a Roman-nose for a great rendition of this.  Any tattoo artist this side of Kansas City would be proud of me.  SHOULD I DO IT?  Wayne
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 11:04:56 PM by jwh1947 »

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 10:41:39 PM »
I, being an old and worthless one in the eyes of more than one animal or human say yes, do it.  It would (being faceless) show that the grim reaper comes from all directions and in all forms :'( But he does come in time to all riflemen :'(
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 02:04:59 AM by Roger Fisher »

Offline bgf

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 10:48:12 PM »
Perhaps this is why some recognizable rifles are "unsigned" -- who knows scandal some seemingly random C-scroll might have provoked in its day, but the customer insisted.  Not hard to imagine some grizzled loner wanting the now forgotten symbolic representation of "Bite me" or some such, with the gunsmith not wishing to be held responsible.  In your case, you might also be able to use an evocative artistic alter-ego by way of a pseudonym, such as "Lignomancer" :).

jwh1947

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 11:07:26 PM »
bgf...good,  really good!

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 11:25:32 PM »
I say do it, but only if you'll post the results............if you can't man up to it then you should'nt do it!
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Rootsy

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 11:30:42 PM »
In everything I have done in my lifetime, from custom firearms to long rifles to antique restoration, performance engines, etc... If it isn't / wasn't good enough to be associated with my name I won't do it...

Offline Lucky R A

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 12:11:07 AM »
What the h--l have you been smoking?   That is the first thought that came to my mind.  Now that is out of the way, I must admit that I did just engrave a pipe wrench into a small cartooch set into the bottom line of a rifle...The client was a plumber.   I think I would pass on the wierd psycotic stuff---what is next the Mack Truck mud flap bathing beauty?
"The highest reward that God gives us for good work is the ability to do better work."  - Elbert Hubbard

jwh1947

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 01:11:41 AM »
What's all ths discussion about "Smoke" which, you guys, not I, have brought up more than once.

Here's the latest scoop in the 'hood.  This comes directly from Slicer, the V.P. of the "Hill Posse" here in the "burg. 

Best legal smoke in Pennsylvania, until Senate passes law to prohibit...WICKED XXX...a proprietary product known in the "hood" as "Triple X."

Best fresh beans in town... Amber Tricomb Hundingdon Headband, buds size of bananas.  None here at the shop, of course, it being out of my domain of interest.  Wayne

BILL OKLAHOMA CITY

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 01:14:42 AM »
go for and show the results.
Political correctness makes me nauseated.

EDITED to add: "THE GRIM REAPER" (DEATH) is something everyone must face. If he comes after me riding a Harley, WOW, what a ride that will be be.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 01:38:17 AM by BILL OKLAHOMA CITY »

jwh1947

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 02:09:39 AM »
Yo, OK Bill, was in your fair city recently, and out to Norman for a 3-day course on winning friends and influencing people.  You are right.  Way I see it, my kids are grown and independent, wife pretty and smart with her own pension, so back on the HD.  There is a draw there.  Latest Harley joke....The difference between a Hoover and a Harley???????  You can get two dirt bags on an Harley.   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline blackdog

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2010, 02:50:21 AM »
I would go for it, and I'm suprised know one else is thinking bigger picture too.  Lets say in 200 years someone looks at that rifle, what will they think?  They might relate to that "21st century longhunter."  By then it might be in a museum somewhere as an evolution of the American longrifle.  Or God forbid, an example of something from our time that is no more.  Like it or not we have evolved the ALR to our time and it will evolve into something else centuries from now.  I am all in favor of making pieces for our time, it is our mark on history.  We will live on in what we build just as our ancestors do.  As people who enjoy looking back at history, we sometimes forget we need to be looking to the future too.
Ei Savua Ilman Tulta

Offline Robby

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2010, 03:05:30 AM »
I had a man that wanted me to put a big ole harley on a horn for him. I wouldn't do it. Thats the trouble with having standards, you miss out on the insignificant. There are federal laws, state laws, county laws, town laws, village laws, and the laws you make for yourself to live by, and those become fewer and fewer as the "G" thinks it knows better for you than you do. Your a grown man, make up your own mind!
Robby
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We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

Offline Kermit

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2010, 03:30:29 AM »
You sure he wouldn't be happier with an in-line? ;)

But getting serious for a moment, I wouldn't do it, but only because my heart wouldn't be in it. That doesn't make for my best work.
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

Offline frogwalking

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2010, 04:26:05 AM »
Seriously Wayne,

Get the money up front.  I can't see you selling that sucker for much if he does not ant to pay for it. 

Just my .02 worth. 

Frog

P/S   I have ridden the same Beemer for the past 10 years.
Quality, schedule, price; Pick any two.

jwh1947

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2010, 04:57:15 AM »
Robby, now be careful, you are verging on the political.

While we are talking about ethics and all, let's speak about one of the bastions of ethics here in the 'burg...the county court room.  My friend Javier got pinched for a humble disorderly conduct charge, something about the misuse of a 9-iron, and he chose to ignore the age-old sage advice about representing oneself in a courtroom.  He did and lost.  

But Javier was no dummy.  He came back with an appeal.  His grounds:  misrepresentation of counsel.  President Judge Carl B. Shelly told Javier that if he ever wasted the court's time again that he would give him 6-months for being a public nuisance.  To wit, Javier shut up, put his tail between his legs, and returned to work at his job as a State Representative.   ::)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 04:57:59 AM by jwh1947 »

Offline Steve Bookout

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2010, 12:37:41 AM »
Do the Reaper on the Hog.  Be known for making your own guns and not copies of what dead men did.  I'm doing a patch box for myself that is the Moon Pie label.  Cheers, Bookie
Steve Bookout, PhD, CM, BSM
University of South Viet Nam
Class of 1969
Class of 1970
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Trkdriver99

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2010, 12:52:47 AM »
Now I have to agree with Bookie. Everything else is a copy... Which there are a lot of copies I would like to have too.  :D

But to each his own   ;D


Ronnie

Offline bgf

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2010, 02:51:04 AM »
1) Bookie, you are now one of my heroes.  Put "Royal Crown" on the cheek inlay and you'll be eligible for redneck apotheosis.

2) JWH, by smoke, I assumed you were talking about some kind of substance I could burn for sooting up parts to inlet, which I need to do, so I went to the local ACE and asked for a pound of "Amber Tricomb Hundingdon Headband".  The kid there just giggled and said he would order it for me.  Am I missing something?

Pvt. Lon Grifle

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2010, 03:47:39 PM »
Dang ! I am screening cartoons of bozo just now to have a contemporary horn scrimmed and engrailed for the specific purpose of passing my views on to posterity within the m/l fraternity. I suppose that would fall into the above speculation. Now to find an outlaw horner !   Lon

Birddog6

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2010, 04:06:55 PM »
It all boils down to what YOU want to do as a builder. Don't make it more than it is.   You either want to do it or you don't. Keep it simple, tell him Yes, I will do it, or no I am not comfortable with it & don't want to build it.   IMHO

Keith Lisle

Offline okieboy

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2010, 07:36:32 PM »
 Had you thought about making the reapers face section a separate piece with a pivot pin through it, so that one side was a psychologicaly sick blank. but rotating it would show a normal psychologicaly healthy reaper face?
Okieboy

SPG

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2010, 08:03:19 PM »
Gentlemen,

In my opinion, and at the risk of being severely chastised and/or labeled a "purist"...

A modern faceless grim reaper would look great on a 700 Remington. If the customer wants that idea put across there are vintage ways of doing the same thing. Personally, I would recommend those vintage ideas to the customer. A modern Reaper on a quality long rifle will look like a whore in church...guaranteed to get people talking but you probably won't like what they say.

Many vintage rifles had sublime references to the Reaper or Death. There are many classy, old-time ways of doing what the customer is wanting that will fit in perfectly with a fine rifle.

Just my thoughts...

Steve   

Offline tim crowe

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2010, 08:28:38 PM »
Wayne ,
Go for the grim reaper. I am with Bookie on this one.
There was a rifle that I saw recently that looked really nice until you opened the patchbox, and............. the artist took real care to engrave a porno pic.
For the record it wasn't Ken Guy's or Bookies gun. So evidently others have crossed that line before and done @!*% nice job. I guess it is all in how it is done!
What did Shakespeare write "There is a fine line between art and gaudy" ?

Bookie
I am looking forward to seeing the moonpie gun.
Tim

Offline Captchee

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2010, 02:12:28 AM »
 I say go for it .
Some time back a fell ask me to do him a under hammer .” photo posted elsewhere on this forum “
 He wanted a dragon done in brass wire ,
At first I was like ?????? Ahhhh ???? A dragon , are you sure .
 But that’s what he wanted  and he sent me a drawing of how it should be .
 After I finished  the rifle , I though it didn’t look half bad . . In fact its rather grown on me and I cant imagine the rifle without it .

So while right now  your second guessing yourself .
 I would say you really only have one question .; can you do it   ?
 If the answer is yes   then go for it . Remember its not your rifle . Your building it for someone else  and that’s what THEY want .
They are paying you  to build what they want not what you want ..
 I would draw things out  first . Submit  it to them saying , this is what  I could do for you .
 If they like it , then dive in
 that’s my two cents

jwh1947

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Re: Symbolism on Contemporaries: An Ethical Quandry
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2010, 04:27:07 AM »
Bookie and okieboy have potential for the site.  Or, perhaps a smiling reaper on one side and flip it to a really grim one, based on one's present attitude.