New England Fowler...

[Geoff Jones]

Hoping for some insight on this fowler from the collective wisdom of the forum...

Wood is cherry, lock is early ketland import lock, buttplate English?  I have no idea on the sideplate and triggerguard. 

I suspect colonial era assembled from various parts...?

Any ideas on the faint proof marks?

Barrel is about 14G, 42 inch Oct to round with very faint weddin bands.

Thanks in advance........ geoff

[Geoff Jones]

Oops... looks like I screwed up on the photos... sorry.

[Robert Wolfe]

I don't know anything about it but I like it. Is it one of those "Carolina" trade guns? Looks like a simple, inexpensive gun in its day - but like I said, I like it!

[Levy]

I agree with Robert, it looks like it was made up utilizing some trade gun parts.  The sideplate certainly looks like a Type G (Carolina Gun) and the barrel appears to have English proof marks and double rings on the barrel.  I've seen two makers represented by the Type G tradeguns recovered from Florida rivers, Williams (Ca. 1714-45) and Wilson (R*W).

James Levy

[Mike Brooks]

I'll guess New England, probably Rev war period. Probably made from parts. The lock, barrel and buttplate are English. The side plate is English also, but from a much ealier gun, probably pre 1700, it's been clipped of at the rear and is incomplete. The trigger guard is a puzzlement.....

[Geoff Jones]

Mike, I agree the tg is weird.  Don't you think the break in the front is a result of the split in the buttstock?  Looks like the split stock piece lines up directly with the break in the front extension.  All sorts of screw holes etc.  Plus the actual bow for the trigger is really small... 

Guess we'll never know!

Interesting fact...  this comes from a house built about 1760.  The place it's hung on the mantel all these years has a perfect outline of the fowler... 

Fun stuff...
geoff

[awol]

I'm thinking the gun is post Rev. war, maybe post 1800.  The lock looks original to the gun.  The "skeg" of the cock (don't know the proper term; that part parallel the jaw screw and around which the top jaw slides) is simply flat. I reminds me of the India pattern Brn bess,  which came after the war and had that simplification.  The  cock looks a bit partridge-breasted, which style came along later than the war. The trigger guard looks a bit plain for a Rev. war era gun.  Interesting to note that the lock is bridleless inside & out. An inexpensive export lock I think.  Also looks like a rifle muzzlecap? maybe the forend broken & then shortened.
I like the gun & it's quite interesting its residence is known.
Alec

[Mike Brooks]

I'm thinking the gun is post Rev. war, maybe post 1800.  The lock looks original to the gun.  The "skeg" of the cock (don't know the proper term; that part parallel the jaw screw and around which the top jaw slides) is simply flat. I reminds me of the India pattern Brn bess,  which came after the war and had that simplification.  The  cock looks a bit partridge-breasted, which style came along later than the war. The trigger guard looks a bit plain for a Rev. war era gun.  Interesting to note that the lock is bridleless inside & out. An inexpensive export lock I think.  Also looks like a rifle muzzlecap? maybe the forend broken & then shortened.
I like the gun & it's quite interesting its residence is known.
Aec

The lock is a run of the mill English export lock of the 1770's by the Ketland family. The flat "comb" of the cock is very typical of these cheap export locks , you'll find this flat cock comb clear back into the 1720's and earlier. I believe the stock has been fitted for a socket bayonet, hard to tell if it was made that way or altered for military service after it was built .... I would suspect it was built this way. I've heard these types of guns called " fowler muskets" in the past.
 Ok, how about this......anybody else think this stock was made from a plank not big enough for the buttstock? Possibly a piece was glued on the bottom to make it big enough while it was in the square? It may just be me, but the grain doesn't look to match up well were the two pieces join.

[Fullstock longrifle]

Mike, I agree with you, I thought the same thing about the stock.  I've seen this done before, but never with another section of wood that large.  It's usually a small piece at the toe.  At any rate, the gunsmith used the wood he had.

Interesting gun.

Frank

[flintriflesmith]

Mike,

I have always thought the "husK" or "bell flower" engraving on those Ketland locks was from well after the Revolution. Even in the 1785-90 period I am usually seeing scroll engraving like on Mel Hankla's Humble rifle.

This design is supposed to be part on the Neoclassical movement and if I remember correctly it starts showing up on furniture in the Hepplewhite (spelling?) period as inlay work.

I could easily believe the gun is a lower end British trade gun from 1790-1800. Is the stock beech?

Gary

[Geoff Jones]

Gary,
Stock is cherry........... geoff

[Mike Brooks]

Gary,
 I can easily agree. I have always associated that lock engraving with a post Rev war date too, although I was thrown by the earlier shape of the lock plate and cock. In fact there isn't anything about this gun that couldn't date it as late as 1800-1810. The buttplate finial is fairly short too, leading me to believe it may be a little latter than Rev. war.
 Regardless, It's a great untouched gun, that was built with military as well as civilian use in mind. I still think it's a New England gun, although there isn't much to base that on other than a cherry stock.
 I believe the lock is by William Ketland by the stamp inside, anybody have in dates on William Ketland & Co.?

[James Rogers]

It is thought the use of the "WM Ketland & Company" marks instead of "Ketland & Company" is associated with the time period of 1804-1831 to distinguish the change in ownership to Thomas Izon from his brother in law, William Ketland (Grandson of the first William) who died in 1804.

[Mike Brooks]

Well, there you go....this may be a militia musket/fowler stocked up for the war of 1812.

[Dan'l 1946]

Gary,
Stock is cherry........... geoff

What area was the gun found in? It may be helpful to know this.

[Geoff Jones]

Chester, New Hampshire