Author Topic: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....  (Read 8098 times)

Martin_G

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Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« on: October 18, 2010, 01:38:11 AM »
Hi guys,


I'm thinking about building one of the rifle kits currently available while waiting for my gunsmith to start my "dream" rifle (and me tryin' to be patient, LOL!).

While looking at kits I've noticed some are rather pricy while other kits are less expensive.

One of the kits that I've been thinking about is sold through Lyman. This is their "Great Plains Rifle" kit in 54 caliber. I haven't decided on the ignition type yet.

I have heard that this kit is the most "traditional" out of all of the kit rifles, but its still not 100% traditional.

Aside from that, I've also heard that the inletting leaves alot to be desired and its sloppy.

Now, I don't if there is any truth to these "rumors" , I'm just going by what I have read in different forums. I hope to find facts,not more rumors.

I have a three questions about this kit. How much supposedly needs to be "fixed" in order to be 100% traditional ?

The second question: Is the inletting really as bad as I have heard, and is there a way to address it?

And #3....Would any of y'all consider buying this kit ?


I appreciate hearing about your experiences & thoughts!



Thanks,

Martin

Online smylee grouch

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2010, 01:59:52 AM »
I know of alot of people who have them and like them as a first gun, and they have a reputation for being good shooters.  Gary

Offline Don Getz

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2010, 03:06:41 AM »
Martin.....I think the Lyman kit is probably pretty cheap, but, you cannot compare a Lyman kit to a Chambers, or some of
the other good longrifle kits.    The Lyman kit will teach you very little about gunbuilding.  If you were to place all of those
Lyman parts into a box and shake it long enough it will go together.   Whereas, a Chambers kit requires gunbuilding skills
to put it together..............Don

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2010, 05:14:58 AM »
Martin, If you get a Chambers or Klein or Brooks or any number of other good traditional rifle kits kit and carefully follow one or mare the books and/or videos you will have a rifle that you can really be proud of for its historical correctness and its appearance.... I think you will learn a lot more and enjoy the process more....just do it patiently!!
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline David Rase

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 06:02:14 AM »
If I was looking for a half stock mountain or plains rifle the Lyman Great Plains kit would be my first choice.  I have seen some very nice finished guns come from that kit.  You are right, they do look like a plains rifle when they are complete.  Jack Brooks also has a very nice Leman fullstock rifle that would fill the western bill as well. 
On the other hand, if it is a long rifle you are looking for then you will have to look into some of the manufacturers Tim mentioned.  It really depends on what you want to do with the rifle.
The Great Plains rifle will be a quicker build.
DMR

Martin_G

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 07:56:58 AM »
I know that the better the quality kit you start out with, usualy a better quality gun will result from that.

What I was looking for was something inexpensive to put together and shoot so I don't go nuts while I wait for my rifle. And if I was gonna build or "assemble" a muzzleloader, I did want it to be a traditional looking one at the very least.

As it stands now, my rifle should start about late February or early March. I already have money tied up in parts, and the barrel is being made for it or I would've bought a Chambers kit.

If I was able to do it myself I know I could save alot of money, plus have the satisfaction of having made it too. The single biggest reason I didn't want to build my own is that unlike some people who have immense talent with wood and can get it to do just about anything, I tend to be a "wood butcher" !  Off & on over the last few years I had tried working with wood just to see if I could make something nice out of it. The results were between mediocre and terrible!

OTOH, if you had wanted a nice looking & FAST Harley to drive I could've done that in my sleep before arthritis sidelined me. I was very good working with motors & motorcycles but me & wood never got along! LOL!

Like ol' Clint said......."A man's got to know his limitations" !



Thanks,

Martin


Offline A.Merrill

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 10:33:05 AM »
    If this is your first build maybe you should try a pistol kit. Then you would have a pistol to go with your rifle. Take a look at Track of the Wolf, they have some kits.    Good Luck    AL
Alan K. Merrill

msw

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2010, 01:42:31 PM »
I agree with Mr. Getz... the Lyman kits, although they will produce a perfectly serviceable rifle, aren't really something to write home about in the 'i-built-it-myself-satasfaction' department.  You might want to go with a pistol.

I would recommend that you check out a few of the 'how to' DVDs at Pioneer Video or any one of a number of other rental sites... watch these videos a few times and you'll get a feel for the level of complexity, and the steps to the subtasks, and the overall tempo of the project.

By way of warning- once you've built one of these, you will always be thinking about your next build.

Good luck, and make good smoke!

Leatherbelly

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2010, 04:30:56 PM »
  Marty,
    Pm's sent. Don't bother with the "kit". Just go buy one,shoot the devil out of her this fall and then 'tune 'er up" this winter while waiting for your "real" rifle. Just my humble opinion tho.

Offline bgf

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2010, 04:46:27 PM »
Leatherbelly has a point -- and you don't get too much of a price break on the kits at the lower end.  In your position, not liking woodwork, etc., I would probably just buy a lower end rifle (probably a "Hawken" of some type) in the same caliber as my expected one and start shooting.  That way you can accrue all the paraphernalia ML'ing requries and get used to shooting.  Make all the mistakes (there are many you can make, trust me) on a cheaper one :) .  If you don't abuse it too badly, you can always sell it, but you may find you like having a beater.  All this is assuming you really just want to shoot, not build a rifle.

Offline Larry Luck

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2010, 03:39:07 PM »
Another option to get a shooter quickly is an in-the-white rifle.  You would get the experience of finishing the metal and wood (maybe some wood reshaping or detailing like lower buttstock moldings, etc.) but really shortcut the time required to get a serviceable rifle.

I don't know all of the builders who produce in-the-white guns, but Tip Curtis seems to have a big assortment at Dixon's.

Good luck,

Larry Luck

Mike Norin

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2010, 04:26:14 PM »
You could buy a cheaper pre-carve stock that is pretty plain and the other parts from some of the great venders out there and start your rifle .Just go slow and read some of the books on how to build a rifle . I did'nt know anything about building a rifle , and felt pretty much the same way you feel about it , but if you give it a try you will be a lot happier with the results . I got a few good remarks on my rifle from the folks on here and some real good advice from everyone , and when I go to  rendezvoo and shoot I feel pretty good telling folks that I built my own rifle , and get some nice coments on my rifle from them . I would try it if I were you . One fellow told me there ain't know mistake you make that can't be fixed when building your rifle ................. Good luck   Mike

Otter

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2010, 05:31:57 PM »
Martin,

The GPR "kit" from Lyman, as several have mentioned, will not require a lot of gunbuilding skills. But putting one together (regardless of how much "extra" work you put into it) will familiarize you with how a muzzleloader goes together - the interaction between each pair of components and such. I have not done a GPR but have put together a Cabela's Hawken flintlock kit, also made by Investarms, the same folks who make the Lyman GPR. If you're just wanting to see how a ML goes together without having to do a lot of drilling, tapping, measuring and shaping, get the GPR kit. If you just want to shoot and learn how to maintain a ML, get the "finished" rifle in the same caliber as the custom of your dreams. The GPRs are good shooters and there are a number of things you can do to the stock (i.e. shaping to slim it down) to make it different from all the others out there and to make it your own "semi-custom", but it still ain't a custom. Best wishes to you in your quest.

Nick

Offline Dale Campbell

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 07:00:45 PM »
Not my work, but you can make a GPR look nicer.  See Taylor's upgrade at:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3417.msg31887#msg31887

and Captchee did reworks on similar commercial guns at:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=11484.15

Best regards,
Dale

Martin_G

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2010, 06:54:11 AM »
Thanks for all of your advice!


Dale,

What do you think the minimum amount of tools is that it would take in order to get the GPR modifications done?

I don't have any wood working tools like rasps or planers,etc.


Thx,

martin

Offline Dale Campbell

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2010, 03:20:18 PM »
See, I knew if I opened my big mouth I’d have to answer a question.  There are others who will have different opinions, and probably better advice, but here’s my take on basics to get you started.  There are excellent lists of tools elsewhere on this site.  Also, do a search on tools here and you’ll find a wealth of information from people who really know what they’re talking about.

If you are considering building a rifle you will need tools anyway.  To upgrade a commercial stock in the white you’ll need less than if you were starting from a plank or a good precarve.  You’ll need a few good screwdrivers, a few good quality chisels, a variety of rasps and files, different grades of sandpaper, a solid means to hold the pieces and a place to work.

If don’t have a workbench, and you do have the forbearance of your significant other, a vice that clamps to the kitchen table will do the job.  There is an active thread on screwdrivers. It has good advice, but a kit like the GPR won’t have tapered slots, so think accordingly.

One of the chisel kits with a variety of woodcarving chisels at a craft or home store might be good enough to start with.  You will need a stone to keep them sharp. Also a regular ¼” and 3/8” chisel.  A coarse and a fine rasp, and a coarse and a fine file.

This might be enough to get you through something simple.  It is not exhaustive, and is not enough to handle any more than that. My intention is to get you enough to see if you like doing this without spending big bucks.  Because you can spend big bucks, and not enjoy what you’re doing, and lose the forbearance of your significant other.

I hope others jump in here and help point you in the right direction, because there is always more than one way to skin a cat.  And for advice on what you should do to make a GPR-like kit better you’ll need input from some other people anyway.



Best regards,
Dale

Martin_G

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Re: Questions about building a "kit" rifle.....
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2010, 02:12:11 AM »
Hi Dale,


Now that wasn't so bad, was it? Not like having to take cough medicine or worse when you're a little critter! I recall some of that stuff had a nasty taste and that was YEARS ago!

I appreciate mentioning some of the tools needed. I do have "gunsmith"  and regular type screwdrivers, some files, sandpaper, steel wool, & stain.

I do not have any type of rasp or wood chisels so I'll have to get those along with another vise.



Thanks,

Martin



Will a whetstone be ok to use on a chisel?