Ramrod Hole - Can it go wrong?

[eagle24]

I've seen all the "whew" comments after folks successfully drilled the ramrod hole in a nice stock blank.  I'm contemplating whether I want to send the barrel and blank off to have the barrel inlet and ramrod channel/hole done or do it myself on my next rifle.  Still working on the first one, so I have some time, but if I decide to send it off I probably ought to go ahead now so it will be back.  Any advice or warnings if I decide to do it myself?  The barrel inlet doesn't bother me, but I haven't attempted a ramrod channel and hole yet.  What are the keys to keeping it going in the right direction?  or keeping it from going astray? 

[George F.]

Accurate layout of the web and ramrod channel and hole. AND, accurate execution of putting the ramrod groove exactly where you want it. Of course keeping the ramrod groove/hole on the centerline of the barrel. Then blocking the ramrod drill down in the ramrod groove, one at the entrance of the lower forestock, and another mid point on the upper forestock as you drill the hole. Removing the drill bit after 3" or so to remove the wood chips. Some builders lube the ramrod drill with bees wax to lube it for easier going.  ...Geo.

[rich pierce]

What he said.  Mine have always come out well unless I layed it out wrong.  If anything, aim for the sideplate the slightest bit.  Make sure you have the barrel in place and clamped or pinned in so it does not distort or bend the forestock.  Make sure the face of the forearm is square so you get a clean start when the drill first starts working.  Just turn the drill with a brace- no torquing or forcing.  Once you are in 6" (about halfway) take the barrel out and drill a 1/16" hole down from the bottom of the barrel channel to see how you are doing.  Put the ramrod hole drill back in the hole, stick a soft wire in your little test hole and see how thick the web now is at that point.  You can also tell if you are running left or right.  It is now possible to torque the stock left or right, up or down, to adjust where the drill ends up.  Start drilling again from the entry pipe if you need to do this.

[Acer Saccharum]

Hoo Boy, this has the makings of a lively topic.

If you know where you want the hole to be, and how thick the web, and all that info, AND you're going to send the stock and barrel out to be inletted anyway, send it to Dave Rase. He will put it spot-on for you.

All those bullets you were going to sweat over the drilling the rr hole yourself can be taken to the range.

Tom

[California Kid]

I'm thinking of going back to doing this stuff by hand again. The cost of shipping the stock and barrel back and forth is getting out of hand. Dave did my last one and a very good job it is.
Getting the RR groove right is the biggest thing. Take time to lay it out and cut it accurately

[Tim Crosby]

 Geoge's advice sounds good. The one thing I do different is to only drill about an inch at a time if that much, I like to get the saw dust/chips out. Also be carefull that the blocks you use to clamp with aren't to tight on the bit. I make my bits out of drill rod with kind of like a spade bit without the pilot and bees wax as a lube.

Tim C.

PS: I have sent them out to be done also, much less second guessing. 

[David Rase]

When I drill the ram rod hole I only drill about 1/2" at a time.  I remove the bit and blow out the hole using my air compressor.  Chips are the enemy when it comes to deep hole drilling.
DMR

[volatpluvia]

Back in '88 I bought a special ramrod hole drill.  It is 48 inches long and is full thickness from one end to the other.  The business end is a mere cone and it has a right angle flute that runs 6 inches back the bit.  You need to start it in the right direction because once it is started by an inch you will not change its direction.  The full thickness keeps it from running off in the end grain.  Works like a charm.  However, you need a BIG drill to run it.  And you need to lube the length of the hole you are drilling.  The red maple I just drilled with it was so hard that I did not cut my way down the hole, I burned it.  But it worked!

Oh, and yes, it makes me sweat bullets.
volatpluvia

[Ed Wenger]

I'm with Tom on this one.  It's well worth the cost of shipping...

[jerrywh]

You guys should have been around when there wasn't anybody to do it for you.

[Randy Hedden]

Just remember that even if you send the stock out to have the barrel channel cut and ramrod hole drilled it can still come back with the RR hole coming out the bottom of the stock or drilled into the barrel channel.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[eagle24]

Thanks guys for the advice and input.  I think I will give it a shot on this one.  First, it is a straight barrel and second, I already have a new bit.  Might as well find out for myself, at least once.  I don't think I will have any trouble getting the groove cut parrallel to the barrel and to the right depth  (some of you are probably grinning and thinking,  OK) leaving the web thickness I want.  Assuming the barrel is inlet and the ramrod channel is perfectly located,  pretty safe bet that the hole isn't going to  wander too far (if any) off track in 10 or so inches?  or still not out of the woods?

[Dphariss]

Back in '88 I bought a special ramrod hole drill.  It is 48 inches long and is full thickness from one end to the other.  The business end is a mere cone and it has a right angle flute that runs 6 inches back the bit.  You need to start it in the right direction because once it is started by an inch you will not change its direction.  The full thickness keeps it from running off in the end grain.  Works like a charm.  However, you need a BIG drill to run it.  And you need to lube the length of the hole you are drilling.  The red maple I just drilled with it was so hard that I did not cut my way down the hole, I burned it.  But it worked!

Oh, and yes, it makes me sweat bullets.
volatpluvia

On the gun drill types I make I burnish (or pean a spot) it slightly on the edge of the cutting edge to increase the cutting diameter and allow just a *slight bit* of clearance. If it seems too big I stone it back down. You can also use Ivory bar soap as a lube if desperate.
Also note that the rod they are made from may have slight size variations over its length. .0005-.001" is not unknown and is within tolerance. If it burns the wood this could be the problem. A drill that cannot be turned with a 3/8 drill turns too hard and there is risk of damage to the stock. I use a 10-15 year old 1/2" Dewalt cordless or my 3/8 corded.
The gun drill designs do drill perfectly straight. But careful set up is the key here as well. Great care must be taken to keep everything in line while drilling and this goes double with anything but a gun drill.
I have yet to see anything but a gun drill run straight every time. There is a difference between straight and straight enough.
The last one I did was a 1/2 stock and I had a brain fa*t during set up and now the forend is 1/8" +- deeper than necessary. The operator should not get too "familiar" with the process in other words.

Dan

[Roger Fisher]

I'm on one now that was drilled for me!!!  He broke trhu abt 2 1/2 in forward of the lock area, in to the barrel channel.  The rod hole is to the opposite lock side by abt 3/8 inch.  I have to remember this when I get to shaping the lower forearm ahead of the lock panel.  Or in plain English I'll have to get thru the sweats and delirium tremons to sleep better at night and stop beating Barbara up!  Oh; but she is such a sweet girl

Any of you out there think I'll be in trouble with the smoothy gun not Barbara?

I like 'em slim where I grip 'em - the gun I mean   I better quit now!

[northmn]

I have drilled a few ramrod holes, none have been a disaster.  My ramrod drills were made two ways.  I layed a bit 1/64" oversized (25/64 for 3/8) in an angle iron and welded on a 3/8 extension.  You have to use the correct procedure.  Mine used stainless rod to handle the tool steel of the bit.  Another way is to make a spade bit out of a rod which is fairly quick.  The drills have lasted for many years.  As stated by others go slow and lubricate.  You cut the groove for the ramrod channel in the full stock and use that for a guide.  While I can appreciate sending out your blanks for various inletting needs, one really does get a lot of satisfaction out of doing as much as possible by yourself, minor screwups and all.

DP

[Stophel]

Took me ten years of trying before I could drill a ramrod hole without disaster...

One thing I have learned is that if it is going to go off, it will go off immediately.  Drill it like one or two inches and check it.  If it is off AT ALL, it will only get worse as you go on.  Fix it then and try again.

[Long John]

I have drilled all of them for all of the rifles I have built. (I am working on #14 now.)  I've done it right, I've been plain lucky and I have done it wrong and had the drill break out in the fore arm.  Here is what I have learned.

Carefully lay out the ramrod groove with the intended web on the rifle blank AFTER the barrel is let in.  The barrel might be a tad higher or lower than you originally intended, etc.  Once the stock has layout lines on it - I use fine line Pilot pens as the ink does not smudge like pencil-  let the ram rod drill into the ramrod groove just as if it were another barrel!  Any extra time you spend getting a nice consistent fit will pay dividends.  Once the drill is let into the groove the intended depth along its entire length make a couple of holder blocks by drilling through a scrap of wood and sawing off 40% by cutting through the hole length-wise.  These block are used to clamp the ramrod drill to the groove.  You DON'T want the blocks too tight.  If the ramrod drill is bent down into the groove it will break out of the bottom of the fore-end.  If it is bent to the right it will exit left, etc.  The stocks that went wrong for me were due to the drill being bent in the ramrod groove.

I have been using single flute "gun barrel drills" for my ramrod grooves.  They are stiffer than brad-point or other forms of twist drills.  But, they are  NOT sharpened properly for wood endgrain the way they come from the factory.  You will have to sharpen them.  Try your drill out on a scrap of wood before cutting into your stock.

I use a hand brace to turn the bit.  I cut about 1 inch at a time and then withdraw the bit and get rid of the chips.  I lubricate the bit with Butchers Wax.  If you even think you feel the drill binding stop and figure out why!

The methods outlined above have allowed me to drill ramrod holes without fear or sweat.  It is an inherent part of the craft of gun-making and I believe every gunmaker should master it.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Leatherbelly]

  As a "stand off" wanabee, all you scratch gunbuilders are a very talented lot!   Not only must you be a woodworker,machinist,blacksmith, sculptor,layout artist,you  guys must have the patience of Job! My hat is off to all you gents.
 John,
   What a great explanation of a sort of "grey" area for me.Drilling with the grain sounds tricky. Do you use a drill press on a long  pedestal type stand?

[Jim Thomas]

If you watch very closly, the first few turns of the drill can "hop" in an unwanted direction.   Usually it is the bottom of the groove (where the groove meets the lower forestock)  that has a small amount of wood not cleaned out to proper depth.    

I tried tappering a ramrod hole by switching to the next size smaller drill after the first drill entered a few inches.    That ended with a ramrod hole off center.   Thankfully not enough to throw the project off.  

 

  

  



  

[Jim Thomas]

  As a "stand off" wanabee, all you scratch gunbuilders are a very talented lot!   Not only must you be a woodworker,machinist,blacksmith, sculptor,layout artist,you  guys must have the patience of Job! My hat is off to all you gents.
 John,
   What a great explanation of a sort of "grey" area for me.Drilling with the grain sounds tricky. Do you use a drill press on a long  pedestal type stand?

I don't know how anyone can get into this and not be flying by the seat of their pants in some area.    You have to be willing to never give up making a fool of yourself. 

[Rich]

Some of the things I do is to use a depth measure to accurately measure and mark where the barrel actually is. Do the same with the ramrod groove. This will show where the web is. I cut the face of the forestock where the hole starts at about a 60 degree angle rather than 90 degrees. This helps hold the drill bit tight to the bottom of the ramrod groove when you start drilling. On the last one I did, I started the hole with a 5/16th bit for the first inch or so then switched to the 3/8th just to make sure the hole was even with the bottom of the groove. I make a wood clamp to hold the ramrod drill in place for the first few inches in front of the entry hole. Go slow and clear chips. If you use the groove as a guide, you have to make sure the forestock doesn't sag. I only clamp the bit near the enterance hole and eye where I want the bit to go. Hope this helps some.

[Long John]

Leather,

I use niether.  I clamp the blank to the top surface of my bench so the drill bit is horizontal and I turn the bit with a hand brace.  With the hand brace you can feel the bit cut.  With very little practice you will be able to "read" what is going on by the sound of the drill bit and the resistance of the cut.  The drill will tell you when it wants the chips cleared.  It will tell you if it is bending due to a gnarly patch of curl.  If you are using a machine you can't communicate with the wood the way you can when you work by hand.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Ken G]

Anyone care to post a picture of two of some of the drill bit points that are being used?
Thanks, 
Ken

[Darrin McDonal]

I have been useing the type of bit from TOTW and (with quadruple checking my layout lines and RR channel directionand) drilling between 1/4" and 1/2" between each pull out with bees wax lube. So far- perfect. KEY --- Go slow and clean the bit very frequently.
Darrin

[Dphariss]

Anyone care to post a picture of two of some of the drill bit points that are being used?
Thanks, 
Ken

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(qh1u1q45dmciniyrp1x4v155))/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=15&subID=87&styleID=961

Dan