New Member Asking About Cost of Tools for First Rifle Build

[Mattole]

Greetings everyone -

This is my first post on this excellent forum and I am glad to be among you in the realm of the American Longrifle.

I will soon be embarking on the quasi-building of my first longrifle, via an A. Verner parts kit from Pecatonica River. I plan to try my hand at some modest engraving and relief carving during the build.

My question is about the general cost of purchasing the many hand tools I will need for accomplishing this first project. I saw a list of tools elsewhere on this site and it looked long indeed. I don't have a fortune to spend but I will spend what is necessary for tools that will serve me faithfully.

So how much, as in the proverbial 'ball park' figure, can I expect to pay for the tools I need? Also, do you have favorite vendors that you like to purchase your tools from?

Many thanks and good day to you,

Kevin

[Ed Wenger]

Hi Kevin, and welcome aboard!  Wow, that's an innocent enough question, but it got me thinking and I have no idea how much I've spent on tools...  I bet if you ask ten guys, you'll get ten different answers to that question.  Some guys like to make all, or most of their tools, others buy.  I don't know about cost wise, but thinking about the tools I use the most, 1/4" and 3/16" chisel, cabinet makers rasp, scrapers, files...  I think what you'll find is that you're going to have a better idea once you start.  Each step has it's own tools that you'll need (want).  I'm thinking that just starting out, you're looking at a couple, three hundred bucks?  I know with me, I didn't go out and drop all kinds of cash up front on a list of tools generated by others.  That's not to say I didn't use those lists as a guide.  I did and their very helpful.  It's just the ten guys / ten different ways thing...  I know I'm rambling, and hope this makes a little sense.  Other guys will jump in and help, I'm sure.  I can tell you I've spent way more than three hundred bucks on tools, I'm just not sure how much I spent when I first started!

                              Ed

[okieboy]

 Ed is right about you'll know what you need as you do it. The best advise on buying tools is don't buy a slew of tools on speculation of what you will need, but buy as your needs demand. I have a slew of tools (Mary, I really need this!), but my first gun was built mostly with a 6 piece carving set from Sears (which I am still using on my current build) a rasp, a few files and a cheap metal vise screwed to a board and clamped to a dining table. I was lucky to be among friendly builders who helped with direction and sometimes their tools, but you get the idea;its often nice to have this or that tool, but just about as often there is another way of doing it with something that is already available to you.
 I will also say that figuring out how to do something and then making a tool yourself to do it is, at least for some of us, as much fun as the gun build itself. 
 Oh, and speaking of friends with tools, you may not know a gun builder in your neck of the woods, but it is likely that you know a woodworking hobbyist and most of them are thrilled to help someone, especially when it's an interesting project like yours.

[dannylj]

Kevin, Ed makes some good points. For my two cents worth I would make a good book my first buy. Maybe "The Gunsmith Of Grenville County". As you look at the various steps think about what size chisel, file, scraper, etc. would accomplish each task and buy the best quality tools you can find because I assure you this won't be your last build. There are some great builders on this site and all are more than willing to help and answer any questions you may have. Welcome and good luck.  Danny

[Bill of the 45th]

What VA gun said, and I would add a Veiner, and a 1/4", and 3/8" or 1/2" gouge.  The #49 or  #50 Nicholson rasp is a must.  Then stones to sharpen the tools.  You can never have them sharp enough. A good clamping system or vise is a must.  Buy the best you can afford, and they will last a long time.  The most important tool is patience.  Take your time, and if you run into a roadblock ask for help.  RCA 1 & 2 are a great help for good views of the different styles.

Bill

[Mattole]

Thank you gentlemen for your helpful replies. I am really looking forward to embarking on my first build and think this will be the beginning of a long and enjoyable relationship with traditional gunbuilding. Years ago when I worked as a film director for National Geographic I used to make films about master craftsmen and always thought "Gee.. I would like to devote myself to being a good craftsman someday." And so the journey begins (that is, after I sell a few high-end air rifles to fund this new hobby).

Thanks again!

[Bill-52]

Welcome, Kevin.  I agree with the suggestions already given: buy your tools as you need them and then buy the best quality tools you can afford.  I'm in the final stages of my building my first rifle and before starting read the same tool lists you've seen.  Even with a workshop full of general carpentry tools, I was looking at a large cash outlay. 

I decided to buy new tools only when needed and have been pleasantly surprised at how few tools I bought.  This is likely, in part, because some of these tools, particularly the speciality chisels, exceed my current building skills to use them effectively!  I hope to take my building skills to the next level with each subsequent rifle and my plan is to acquire tools accordingly.

That said, with quality tools as expensive as they are, whatever you spent on your kit, you're likely to spend a good portion of that again on tools.

And get a good book.....

Bill

[coutios]

Nice to see new folks joining... Welcome....  How about telling us where your at???
You may be able to find someone close to partner up with.. See what and how they are using their tools.. You don't need alot to build one of these things but don't waist your money on junk.. Buy good tools.. I live in Ohio so I like to support the Log Cabin.. Don't do the mail order thing much, Like to see what I'm buying..  You picked a great site to get started on.. Make all your plans and have a good idea where your going before you start cutting wood..

Have fun and bet ya won't build just one
Regards
Dave

[Mattole]

Thank you Bill.

What book or books/videos have you found helpful?

[Mattole]

Kevin, Ed makes some good points. For my two cents worth I would make a good book my first buy. Maybe "The Gunsmith Of Grenville County". As you look at the various steps think about what size chisel, file, scraper, etc. would accomplish each task and buy the best quality tools you can find because I assure you this won't be your last build. There are some great builders on this site and all are more than willing to help and answer any questions you may have. Welcome and good luck.  Danny

I would love to get this book, but it seems to be out of print and the books available that I have seen sell for many many dollars...

[LURCHWV@BJS]

   Greetings,  Watch out this site can be addicting.  There are some fantastic people here.  (and a few anal retentives) I suggest two books of the same Title " Recreating the American Longrilfe" One by Chuck Dixon, and the other by Buchele,Shumway& Alexander.  The latter has a little more in depth info. both cost around $25.  Just finished my first build from a blank.  I have just about as much in tools as I have in the Rifle.  Thank GOD the cost in tools is only as you need them as your experience grows.  Just starting out with the essentials you'll spend $300- $400.  But It's worth it.


   Rich

[dannylj]

Kevin, there was a recent thread about the cost of "The Gunsmith Of Grenville County" book and I had forgotten that it was out of print. Mike Brooks has posted an excellant tutorial on assembling a rifle. His is from a blank and not precarved but there is a lot of good info on it. The site is http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/tutorials/brooks/Brooks1.html. I built my first rifle, a Southern Mountain flintlock from parts I got from Pecatonica - really good quality. Good luck, post often, and send photos.  Danny

[Mattole]

Nice to see new folks joining... Welcome....  How about telling us where your at???
You may be able to find someone close to partner up with.. See what and how they are using their tools.. You don't need alot to build one of these things but don't waist your money on junk.. Buy good tools.. I live in Ohio so I like to support the Log Cabin.. Don't do the mail order thing much, Like to see what I'm buying..  You picked a great site to get started on.. Make all your plans and have a good idea where your going before you start cutting wood..

Have fun and bet ya won't build just one
Regards
Dave

I am originally from Illinois (Champaign>Chicago>Waukegan, and now live in northern California about two hours southwest from Eureka. The actual area I live in is called The Lost Coast - aptly named, since it is far, far away from anything..

Even though I have even not started yet, I definitely agree with you Dave - I won't be building just one longrifle! It seems like a great way to marry my interests in firearms, woodcarving, and black powder shooting all in one activity. Plus its an opportunity to be an active participant of an ancient and esteemed tradition. I knew I was interested in muzzleloader shooting and hunting, but as soon as I started looking at the work of the modern longrifle makers recently I became hooked on the idea of building my own..

Thanks for the information and the welcome, everyone.

[A.Merrill]

     HI, Mattole. They are right, buy good tools. But you can save some money and still get top name brand tools at pawn shops. The pawn shops here sell hand tools for 3.00 a lb. I have found tools that was good as new and some that was all rust, but you can make a specialty tool out of them. Inletting black is a must. GET a book on gun building. Let us know how you are doing.    Good Luck    AL

[James Rogers]

Mike Brooks has posted an excellant tutorial on assembling a rifle. His is from a blank and not precarved but there is a lot of good info on it. The site is http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/tutorials/brooks/Brooks1.html. I built my first rifle, a Southern Mountain flintlock from parts I got from Pecatonica - really good quality. Good luck, post often, and send photos.  Danny

If you go to his website at fowlingguns.com he also has a tutorial on building an English trade gun from a pre-carve.  I imagine if you put the two tutorials together you will have some good info.  as to putting together a pre-carve rifle.

[Bill-52]

Kevin,

I've found The Gunsmith of Grenville County by Peter Alexander, Recreating the American Longrifle by Buchele, Shumway & Alexander and The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle by Chuck Dixon all to be helpful.  I've not used any DVDs so can't comment on those.

Re old tools, the best chisels I have are my grandfather's.  Clean them up and really sharpen them and its amazing how easy it goes.  BTW, you should include sharpening tools in your tool list.  I use emery paper on a plexiglas surface for initial sharpening and fine stones & leather strop for finishing.  I never really knew how to sharpen a tool until I read some of the posts here!

Bill

[Long Ears]

Kevin,
   Welcome to the Forum it is the best tool I have in my shop. As for a ballpark figure on cost of tools I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of a small fortune! It is however worth every dime you spend. As stated before buy the best tools you can afford. They do last a lifetime. You sound a lot like me in I have worked with wood my while life as well as being a competitive shooter since I was 10 years old. This HOBBY of building Long Rifles is addictive and very rewarding.
    I have purchased most of my chisels and gouges from a local Woodcraft store and have been very satisfied with the quality. It is true you will only NEED a few but the longer you build you see where another tool my help your progress. I think I'm a bit of a tool nut so I enjoy trying some of the stuff shown by other builders. I would suggest a good Gun Builders Vice as a great investment. I can't tell you how many files and rasps I now own.
   As for Video's, I had used books for most of my work. At Dixon's this year I purchased a video from Barbie Chambers and it is very good. I plan on purchasing a couple others on carving and engraving in the near future. Good luck and ask questions, these guys know it all and we all learn from your questions.

[rich pierce]

(just on chisels)  If you can forge, you can make all your chisels from O1 steel and they will be as good or better than commercial tools, because they'll be shaped exactly as you want.

I obtain or make chisels according to the job they will do.
I need a straight chisel thin enough to inlet a trigger blade.
A straight chisel about 1/4" in width is great for many inletting tasks.
Another straight chisel 1/2" wide gets a lot of work.  Or just size it for the rear of a square tang on the types of barrels you use.
Largest straight chisel I use is 3/4"-7/8" wide for stabbing in long inlets.

For gouges I use one to match the bend of a mainspring.
I use another that is smaller to inlet the curve of the sear spring and other little curves.
I use one with a radius a smidgeon smaller than the front nose of most locks.  This one also works for inletting larger ramrod thimbles.

Other chisels will get some work but these will be your mainstays for inletting work.  I'd master inletting asnd making plain guns before getting carving tools.

[Thom]

I am one of those who enjoys making my own tools as much as gun building. One of my favorite is my scrap box. Scrap metal, spring stock, old saw blades, and the list goes on. I made my last two rear sights from an old railroad spike found along the tracks. Seems that I make most of my tools from the scrap box and scrap stock wood.

Happy Building

Thom

[lew wetzel]

you dont need the best chisels......just make sure you keep an edge on them....razor sharp......pm me with your address and i will send you some....and get a good stone........

[Jerry V Lape]

I bought what I needed as I faced each new task and made a few others.  Best start with a good vise.  Buying chisels is probably the most expensive and the temptation is to buy more than needed.  I only use  few of them though.  Could probably get by with about 5 now that I know what I like to use.  Most seem to use a drill press but I don't use the one already on hand at all.  I do use a hand drill with guide which I had made.   Note that I am just building for myself, and I am not in a hurry.  If your goal is to become a builder for revenue you are certainly going to spend a lot more money on tools specific to task to speed your work along.  I am only worth about 5 cents per hour - which is probably period correct I might note! 

[Mattole]

I plan to take it nice and slow (but hopefully steady) with the build. I'm still saving up to buy the Verner parts kit from Pecatonica River, so in the meantime I want to educate myself with some books and DVD's, and also acquire the most basic tools that I am likely to be needing.

I would also really like to find some scrap pieces of stock maple somewhere so that I can do some practice relief and incise carving before I attempt to carve on the real thing. Ditto with metal for some engraving. I've done some wood carving before so I think if I can get some additional practice with the material that the stock is made of I will not be too far over my head when I approach the actual stock.

Thanks everyone for the generous replies you are providing to my original post!

[lew wetzel]

i will throw a couple small pieces of some really hard maple....from 1981....good to practice with aloing with the chisels i am boxing up for you.........buy some bandaids........seriously

[Mattole]

Lew, thanks so much. Let me know what your postage comes out to be so I can reimburse you for it!

[Z. Buck]

Remember tools are an investment and don't let me catch you telling my wife any different but seriously good tools work better, i doubt you need the best, but some of the more commonly heard names are heard more often for a reason. i suppose i should start keeping track of my tool collection like i do my gun collection so i can add it to my net worth, makes me feel better about my standing in the world when i look at the "value" of my collections  of course we must remember things are only worth what someone will pay for them