Track's Eastern Style bags

[Rick Sheets]

How authentic are track's Eastern stlye bags? I know they are mass produced and have machine stitching, but are they kind of right to mate with a 1760ish Southern rifle?
I would make one myself, but would not know where to start.
Thanks,
Rick

[art riser]

You might want to check out bags made by several contemporary artists.  For really great old looking bags you can't beat Joe and Brad Mills, John Barrett, Ken Scott, Jack Hubbard, Jeff Cline, and Tim Albert.  For bags with a less aged look you can't go wrong with Ed Wilde, Greg Hudson, Calvin Tanner, Jeanne McDonald, Frank Willis, Ernie Boyd and Pete Hutton.  Many of these makers can be seen on the Contemporary Makers blog.  There is also a long list of makers on the CLA site.

[James Rogers]

For those prices listed, you could get a nice handsewn one with more correct leather sewn with linen thread. I would avoid the rings and excessive pockets also. For "modern" muzzleloading shooting in a traditional manner, the bag you mention is nice and should hold up well.

Original bags for the time frame you mention are virtually non-existent. By sticking with the basics you will come closer to an original bag used in America.
I am assuming since you say you cant make one yourself, you would have purchased a bag from a harness maker had you been in the 1760's? If so, the quality can be like that of a harness making craftsman. I am of the opinion that if a bag was purchased in this time frame, it would have been a neatly made but bare bones bag, ready made as a side item by a craftsman who produced many other items for his bread and butter. 

Many of the really nice contemporary works of art  bags are not in my opinion representative of something used in colonial America.

[art riser]

It would seem to me that the bag carried by an individual would be directly related to financial status and proximity to a city.  The cities had leather workers producing the same quality products that were made in England and on the continent.  The colonists were aware of of these products whether they could afford them or not.  Case in point, a weskit on the frontier looked very much like its counterpart in the cities, just not as elaborate.  When people emigrated to the colonies they did not just suddenly forget all they knew. 

Some folks on the frontier might have carried a rather nice shot pouch either brought with them or if they had the skills, made by them.  It's also possible that they knew someone who could make a rather decent bag for them. 

There were probably also bags of simple construction.  A bag in the Smithsonian supposedly carried by a soldier in the Revolutionary War is really nothing more than a square crudely made from what appears to be home tanned leather.

All conjecture.  I can't say with certainty what was carried but after years of study these are my thoughts on the matter.

[don getz]

Rick....I would be curious as to what 1760 period "southern" rifle you have copied, since there are very few Pennsylvania
rifles from that period in existence?   When people talk about building a "pre-revolutionary" style gun, they don't realize
that the pickins' are mighty slim...........Don

[G-Man]

They look to be well made, but there are some fine makers who can get you a nice hand stitched pouch in that price range, or just a few $ more.

Like the rifles it is hard to say what a 1760s southern pouch would have looked like, since there are no (to my knowledge) documented pouches from that period that were known to accompany an American southern longrifle.  Lots of references to both though, so we know rifles and pouches were in use.

That being said, I think simpler styles persisted throughout the period of use of pouches so if it were me, I'd go with something simple, but well made.  I think a simple squared or round bottom pouch, with a plain, pointed or simple beavertail flap would be fine.  I have seen (modern) references to pouches of that period tending to be "longer than wide" but I do not know what examples that is based on - if so, I think we have to be careful not to extrapolate too much from one or two surviving examples - there was probably a wider variety than what those few (if any) surviving pieces represent.

I also second Art's recommendations on the makers listed.  For example, I think Cal's and Ernie's bags start in your price range and their workmanship is outstanding.  All of those makers listed are very good and there are some very good values out there in their work.  I think any of them would be happy to discuss your project and come up with something appropriate for you - they are nice folks. 

Guy



 

[Leatherbelly]

Rick,
 Look up our own jasontn. He makes excellent  bags very reasonable. Ages them too if you want.

[Roger Fisher]

Rick....I would be curious as to what 1760 period "southern" rifle you have copied, since there are very few Pennsylvania
rifles from that period in existence?   When people talk about building a "pre-revolutionary" style gun, they don't realize
that the pickins' are mighty slim...........Don

Now that is a good question! Can't wait for the answer

[Brian]

Just take your time and do a bit of looking.  There are many craftsmen out there now making extremely nice bags at reasonable prices.  Many of these craftsmen frequent this site, so you should be able to contact them.  Now, as in 1750, you can pay as much or as little as you can afford.

[Randy Hedden]

Rick,

The bag at TOTW seems to be large and overly complicated in comparison to early original bags. Of course we have no idea what bags from the mid 18th century looked like, but most slightly later bags, very late 18th century and 1st half of the 19th century, were small in comparison to the TOTW bag. I believe you could find several guys right here on the ALR board who could make you a more time period bag for the same or a bit more than the bag on TOTW.

Guys,

Has it ever occurred to any of you that the casual farmer/hunter just out to get meat for the family in the 18th century might have just carried his shooting accessories in his pocket, sans hunting pouch?

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[Brian]

I suspect you are right on the money Randy.  I've gone out back to do a little shooting like that many times.  Just didn't want to carry anything I didn' t need for half an hour or so.  You carry your rifle and sling your powder horn over your shoulder.  You can carry a dozen balls in your pocket, a few patches and a spare flint in the other pocket, and you already have a knife on your belt.  Done.

[T*O*F]

I didn't go to the site to look at the bags, but I believe most of Track's bags are made by The Leatherman, whose name I can't remember in a senior moment.  He always has a booth at Friendship, often along with Tiger Hunt.

He's a one-man-shop, so it's not like they are made in a factory in China somewhere.

[Randy Hedden]

Geez Dave,

You been taking to many meds or smoking something you shouldn't?? His name is Gary Fatherree.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[T*O*F]

You been taking to many meds or smoking something you shouldn't?? His name is Gary Fatherree.

Randy, I knew that......just couldn't think of it at the time.
Considering both my parents had/have Parkinson's and my Dad died from dementia, things don't look good in my gene pool and it becomes more evident every day.  In a few more years, I'll be a babbling idiot although there are those who think I already am.  My brain hurts and my attention span is about 1/2 hour long now.

[Rick Sheets]

Don,
Mr. Immel was kind enough to build a "loose" interpretation of a gun that came out of a museum here in NC. Shumway wrote an article on it. It was in Muzzle Blasts in May of 1988 called "An Early Smoothrifle." I know that the evidence is thin that this is a southern rifle, but maybe it is.
Chris basically said that his interpretation is Germanic gun that could have come from the south (or anywhere) during the Revolutionary period. By the way, it was nice to deal with someone who delivered more than he promised.

Rick

[Ohioan]

Maybe i'm missing something.  My knee breeches I wear during reenacting don't have pockets.  I was under the impression that pockets were pretty rare way back when.  Hence the need for belt pouches, hunting pouches, haversacks and the like. 

  I'm no expert on clothes of the 18th century though.  I'll have to ask my sister, she's the one who has done all the research.

[James Rogers]

Waistcoats, frock coats had pockets. Breeches also had pockets but the coat adn waistcoat pockets are easier to get into.

[wwpete52]

Here are several bags that I have made in the last couple of months: