Why?

[Dave Waters]

I hope none will laugh at me but could someone explain the real reason for castoff in a stock?
I've never put it in a stock of any gun I've built and never saw a good reason for it. But, maybe I'm missing something.   So, someone please help me.  

[Acer Saccharum]

• The stock has such a high straight comb, a little castoff helps.
• The cheekpiece is so thick, a little castoff helps get your face down on the stock.
• My customer has a great fat face.
• It makes me feel intelligent when I say I use castoff.
• My wood is warped. Castoff is a good excuse.

[Dennis Glazener]

To really see the benefit of cast off/on etc. Try a good fitting English made rifle or fowler!

I usually put 1/4" of cast off on my rifles, I can tell the difference.
Dennis

[lew wetzel]

thats great tom........about sums it up.....lol

[westerner]

The stock has such a high straight comb, a little castoff helps.
The cheekpiece is so thick, a little castoff helps get your face down on the stock.
My customer has a great fat face.
It makes me feel intelligent when I say I use castoff.
My wood is warped. Castoff is a good excuse.

 I use castoff!


            Joe.

[Jim Kibler]

I generally use a little cast off, but I think it is highly overated.  Look at it this way....    Somewhere around 3/16" at the butplate is pretty typical.  This usually starts somewhere in front of the comb nose but behind the tang.  Think about where your face comes in contact with the stock.  Likely around the midpoint of the start of the cast off and the butplate.  So the deviation at that point is around 3/32".   That isn't much at all.  Variations in how the cheek is dished, comb height etc. can make up for that in a heart beat.  A while back I made a pretty close copy of RCA #42.  The original is either straight or has just a touch of cast on.  I made my version straight and it fit well.  Keep in mind this is an early wide butted gun with a strong pronounced cheekpiece.

[westerner]

I have a deluxe percussion hunting rifle from Dusseldorf, right hand.  It has quite a bit of *cast on*.   Fat cheeks? 


                  Joe.

[Dave Waters]

Com'in from you Tom, I take all 5 reasons as gospel truth!!! (By the way, who's got the fat face?  )

Seriously, I'm building another swivel breech, this time for myself and thought this might be a good time to ask.

I appreciate all the wisdom.

[Frizzen]

This cast off is for a right hand shooter who is left eyed.

[Jim Filipski]

If you build big "fat butt" European Guns you will understand "why"  immediately! ( also you will understand why the "pulls" are so short)
Jim

[A.Merrill]

    Frizzen, what is that? Is that real?     AL

[Acer Saccharum]

That gun Frizzen posted is for real. I think there is one in the Steinschloss book.
Tom

[Frizzen]

Yes, It's for real.   Built by My friend Richard Dale from Missouri.

[James Rogers]

They are called crossover stocks. By the early 1700's fitting was being considered by some gunsmiths and/or perceptive customers. There is a crossover stock on a circa 1715 sporting gun by Houell of Zella, Germany that was made for the Duke of Brunswick.

[David Rase]

I agree with Jim on this one.  A little castoff is needed on most early longrifles.  I think a lot of builders today automatically add a 1/4" of cast off just because.  What I see are a lot of over pronounced cheek pieces due to unnecessary castoff.
DMR

[Acer Saccharum]

DMR, Eat more, and your cheekpiece can be smaller.

[Captchee]

 i wouold add to the list .
wide shoulders .
cast off brings the barrel that much closer to the line of sight  and thus   less need to lean  over into the gun .
 cross over guns are still made today .
 you see them every now and then in  cartradge guns as well

[northmn]

Cast off is designed to align the eye with the sights when the gun is mounted.  As some have stated it is probably best used with a wide early buttplate.  The other alternative to get the same fit would be to kind of scoop out the comb on the cheek side.  Cast on will work for a narrow buttplate.   I had a nice little Beretta O/U 20 ga that I actually tended to over mount which casued me to shoot off to the side.  A cheek piece or cast on would help.  I sold it rather than mess with the stock.  A touch of cast on can also help in recoil control on the cheek as the cmob tend to kick away from your face.  Basically I agree with Jim in that it is higly over rated.  I quit using it as in a rifle I see little gain in it and in a fowler it can also cause a recoil issue similar to a side by side double where they kick in with one barrel and out with another.  My one 12 bore fowler looks kind of different as I inletted a straight butt plate parrallel to the barrel, on a cast off to avoid that issue.  I would have been happier with just a straight stock.

DP

[James Rogers]

I agree with many here. Cast is probably the least important dimension measurement in stock fit but if done properly will keep from head rotation or head leaning. Shoulder width, stance, jaw thickness, jowl fat and eye socket location all play a part in setting it up along with the comb thickness. Extreme cast can cause recoil issues and I agree with Jim Kibler on his maximum. If that's not enough, then another adjustment at the comb would be a better choice if possible. Cast does not have to be just a  bend in the whole stock from the bore axis. You can create more "toe out" to allow for a more comfortable mount on the pectoral muscle, etc.

[Dphariss]

I hope none will laugh at me but could someone explain the real reason for castoff in a stock?
I've never put it in a stock of any gun I've built and never saw a good reason for it. But, maybe I'm missing something.   So, someone please help me.  

Its not necessarily where the cheek contacts the gun but where the BUTT PLATE contacts the shooter.

Wide butt plate and a blank too thin for a cheek rest.  Center a 2" BP on a 2 1/2"  blank and there is little wood to work with. Moving the buttplate to the edge of the blank adds 1/4" to the cheek side.
This is a 2 1/2" blank with a 2" BP.

I only sanded  the "flat" of the cheekrest for finish and you can see how low it is at the back.

Cast off stocks will also tend to come up to align the sights better, for me anyway.

Crescent butts are generally shot off the arm.

The shoulder pocket is not right under the eye.

Some guns are wider at the breech.

If you shoulder a high end custom SXS shotgun and marvel at how it points it will invariably have some cast off and it is not accidental.

Its not necessary to have cast off. But it works very well for some people. Most perhaps.
I like to use about 1/4" especially for wider buttstocks.

Dan

[fm tim]

Two factors seem to be in play - accuracy and comfort.

Accuracy - The shotgun shooters have no rear sight to line up with a front sight (or bead).  Head position, and resultant eye position, create the rear sight to line-up with the front of the barrel (there is no one-eye sighting, just pointing).  They "sight-in" with changes in the stock itself (Cast off, drop, and length of pull primarily).  Few shotguns have a cheek piece to displace the face from the centerline of the stock, and they still may require cast-off to align the eye right over the barrel.

Comfort - The rifle with a cheek piece will be more comfortable to mount with cast off, but the shooter must still line-up the 2 sights for accuracy regardless of stock shape.

[Dphariss]

Two factors seem to be in play - accuracy and comfort.

Accuracy - The shotgun shooters have no rear sight to line up with a front sight (or bead).  Head position, and resultant eye position, create the rear sight to line-up with the front of the barrel (there is no one-eye sighting, just pointing).  They "sight-in" with changes in the stock itself (Cast off, drop, and length of pull primarily).  Few shotguns have a cheek piece to displace the face from the centerline of the stock, and they still may require cast-off to align the eye right over the barrel.

Comfort - The rifle with a cheek piece will be more comfortable to mount with cast off, but the shooter must still line-up the 2 sights for accuracy regardless of stock shape.

Alignment comes easier/faster with a good stock design.
Two sights or one
Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

Shoulder your gun with your eyes closed. See if your sights are lined up when you open your eyes.

[JCKelly]

If you question the value of cast-off, take a gun so made, for a right hander, & try to aim it left handed.

I have an old Peter Gonter Kentucky fowler made with a good bit of cast-on. !@*%&@ if I can sight down the barrel holding it right-handed. Fits OK left-handed, though.

[Z. Buck]

being a righty who s left eye dominate i have always been quite intrigued by crossover stocks but i am more than a little scared in trying to make one, not to highjack the thread, but are these normally made out of a crazy thick blank, laminated, or are they boiled in oil and bent? i suppose bent would be the only option for something with a little bigger kick

so as not to totally distract from the original question i am short broad shouldered with a fat face and i like a little cast off or a really well formed buttstock on my guns, when going for a specific shape and architecture to the buttstock the cast is necessary to get it to fit perfectly, without making the shaping wonky.  it will fit "ok" without cast but not "just so" your mileage may vary