Gentlemen, What Style Rifle Do You Recommend for First Time Builder?

[Mattole]

Later this fall I will be embarking on my first rifle build. Most of you who visit the forum regularly probably already know this, as I have been peppering this fine gathering ground with questions for many days now. Thank you for the generosity of spirit that you have shown to a newcomer!

In another thread that I started yesterday I was requesting images of a Verner style rifle, as that is what I thought I would do for my first build. My post was answered by someone who was concerned that I may be biting off more than I could chew as a first time builder. I do have some experience with carving wood, but he may well be correct!

So I am starting another thread to ask your advice on what a good rifle style for a first time builder would be. My criteria include:
- I want to be able to use this for western hunting from time to time, so I was thinking of something with a swamped 38" barrel in .54.
- I want it to have a nice wide buttplate, as I have read that this is more comfortable for shooting hunting loads.
- I am a leftie so that is another consideration in terms of what kind of kits may be available.
- I want the rifle to be very nicely balanced because I want to shoot this offhand thousands of times over the years and if I find I am a good enough muzzleloader shot I may even venture to enter a competition someday.
- I want the style to be conducive to a little bit of relief carving, as I do believe that with some practice on other pieces of wood I could pull this off.
- I will be taking the build nice and slow and ideally want to end up with something that I can enjoy shooting and be proud of.

My original idea was an A. Verner kit from Pecatonica River, but perhaps this is too much for me to handle the first time around? My second choice was a Virginia rifle kit, as this has a wide buttplate and seems to be the choice of other ML hunters that I have seen.

I am open to other suggestions. The cost of this first build, between the parts kit and the tools, is going to be a big enough chunk that it may be the only build that I do for a year or two, so I want my decision to be as informed as possible.

Many thanks again!

[California Kid]

Check out Jim Chambers Issac Haines kit, 38" barrel and he does have it left- handed. Just what you seem to be looking for. Chambers are some of the best kits out there.

[geb324]

Check out track of the Wolf they have pre-inlet kits Verner style
good way to go for your first Gun

[bgf]

Also at TOW, they have an Edward Marshall/Christian Springs style pre-inlet that looks like it might be good.  It should stand up to a lot of carving and as much engraving as you want to do.  The 37-inch D weight barrel would be nice in .54, and the butt should be plenty wide.  Just an idea; I've never seen one done from it, so I would like to see someone else try it .  I think there is also a similar kit from other places.

[Mattole]

Check out Jim Chambers Issac Haines kit, 38" barrel and he does have it left- handed. Just what you seem to be looking for. Chambers are some of the best kits out there.

Thanks for the suggestion, California Kid. I just spoke with Karen Chambers and it seems like the ideal rifle for me at this stage of my gunbuilding career. I have heard many good things about the Chambers kits and it sounds like they take good care of their customers.

So... an Isaac Haines it will be for me! I'm going to have to wait 4-8 weeks for them to get another shipment of stocks in, but that will give me time to deepen my education re: gunbuilding and gather my tools.

I'm very excited!

[Mattole]

I believe you steered me right, so thank you Eric!

[J. Talbert]

As I read your description, the Chambers Isaac Haines was the first thing that I thought of, then I saw that Cal. Kid had the same idea.  It fits your criteria to a T.

If I might add my thoughts on carving your first rifle...  I'd recommend to most any first time builder to pick a design that stands on its own because of good architecture, (such as the Isaac Haines kit), and forego any carving or engraving.  There are of course exceptions, but in many, many cases of first time builds, the carving and engraving detract from, rather than add to the finished project.
This is only my opinion, and as stated there are always exceptions.

If you decide to go ahead with carving &/or engraving, the first step is to be darn sure of your design.  A poor design, well executed is still poor carving.

Best of luck!

Jeff

[Mattole]

Thanks for your words of caution Jeff. I intend to do a good deal of research and drawing first, then I will practice on some pieces of curly maple - actually I'm hoping to find some rejects from a stock company to practice with. If I feel confident enough after practice carving on curved surfaces then I will make a go with the kit stock.

[Don Getz]

After reading what you wanted in a gun, you can't beat that Isaac Haines kit.   It will feel better than any Verner you can
build.   Those straight lines and wide butt of a Lancaster just can't be beat...............Don

[Mattole]

After reading what you wanted in a gun, you can't beat that Isaac Haines kit.   It will feel better than any Verner you can
build.   Those straight lines and wide butt of a Lancaster just can't be beat...............Don

After talking with Karen at Chambers I learned that the Isaac Haines kit comes standard with a single trigger. Seeing as I want to use this for hunting and for target/competition shooting, should I order the Davis double set triggers for it? I have no idea how crisp and sensitive a single muzzleloader trigger can be adjusted to..

[Dennis Glazener]

After talking with Karen at Chambers I learned that the Isaac Haines kit comes standard with a single trigger. Seeing as I want to use this for hunting and for target/competition shooting, should I order the Davis double set triggers for it?

NO, in my opinion. I like double set triggers for only one thing, shooting at paper or possibly for squirrel hunting.

When still hunting for deer you must either hunt with the gun cocked or learn how to silently put the gun on full cock. I have not yet learned how to set a trigger without it making a loud click! Then you are sitting there with a gun on full cock and a set trigger ready to be sprung with only a slight nudge. I much prefer the standard old single trigger. You should be able to get a single trigger to a nice crisp 4 lb pull.

Supposedly you can use a double lever set trigger either set or unset. I have gotten one or two to where they could be fired unset but the trigger pull was very bad.

Other may think otherwise.
Dennis

[Mattole]

In terms of using double triggers for hunting, didn't the mountain men use double triggers on their Hawkens and such? Maybe they cleared their throat to cover the sound of pulling the set trigger.. Hey - I've just used my first emoticon!

I really do want to be able to do some precision shooting with this rifle, so I may have to get another rifle for the outback hunting I will be doing..

[California Kid]

I would stick with the single trigger. These can be set up very well for target or hunting.

[Mattole]

I would stick with the single trigger. These can be set up very well for target or hunting.

I reckon that is what I need to investigate more - just how adjustable a single trigger from a Jim Chamber kit can be..

[bob in the woods]

I shot muzzleloaders with single triggers at ranges out to 1000 yds . If set up well, you can get a very nice let off. For hunting deer, moose , bear I like a single trigger with lots of room in the trigger guard for my gloved finger.

[Leatherbelly]

  If you go with a double set trigger,just have your deer grunter with you when hunting. When you are setting it, lightly puff on your grunter.That should cover the sound. Maybe consider a single set trigger. They seem to be a tad quieter to set. You will still have to cock the lock quietly by pulling the trigger and drawing the cock back to the full cock position,releasing the trigger and letting the cock fall into the full cock notch. Then set your trigger. Hope this helps.

[Leatherbelly]

   They don't adjust with a set screw like a modern suppository rifle. To adjust a single trigger, it's a mechanical thing.Be ready to file,drill and polish.JMHO tho.

[Dphariss]

In terms of using double triggers for hunting, didn't the mountain men use double triggers on their Hawkens and such? Maybe they cleared their throat to cover the sound of pulling the set trigger.. Hey - I've just used my first emoticon!

I really do want to be able to do some precision shooting with this rifle, so I may have to get another rifle for the outback hunting I will be doing..

I like set triggers though I have/have had several rifles I could shoot well with a normal trigger.
I can shoot offhand better with a set trigger. If you want a set trigger use one,  its little more work than a common trigger unless you have to make the triggers.

The triggers are not so loud as to spook game, a GOOD set trigger has a light front trigger spring and very little travel of the front trigger when they are set no click. I have made two single sets in the past 3-4 months that are totally silent since the "sear" spring is very light.
The front trigger on DSTs need not have a spring like a sear spring, if it does you have a poor set trigger. If they are noisy you can quite them with a finger on the front trigger, pull the rear, release the front then release the rear.
There are conceivable times when the cocking of the lock might be too noisy but on double acting triggers its possible to keep the sear from clicking by pulling the front trigger (with the triggers unset) and letting the pressure off after the sear has cleared the  full cock notch then relaxing pressure on the cock. This is an old trick since locks ARE noisy, the good ones anyway.

Dan

[Gene Carrell]

I agree with Dan, but must add that a properly installed single trigger and well tuned lock will provide good results for range work and hunting. I've aN.C. mountain rifle with a Caywood lock that comes off clean at 2 pounds  pull. That  is about as light as you can use for hunting and  will allow for range work.

[pathfinder]

  My shooting went immediately from wretched to poor.  Go for the double trigger unless you are primarily using the gun for hunting.

Yer Killin' me! Haven't read the other posts after this one,still laughing,but a properly done single trigger, IMHO,can'tbe beat for a hunting rifle,and have shot some pretty good score's with 'em too. "Buck fever" is a fairly common condition we all get no matter how long in the tooth we are and single triggers are a little more forgiving.

[digger]

I second the Chambers Kit, just built my first rifle out of one and they are awesome. I went with the single trigger, and range or field, it is great. Everyone I let try it comments on how perfect the trigger pull is on my Lancaster. Just take your time and you will be fine with the single trigger. I posted some of the pics of my build on here if you do a search under Chambers Lancaster Build. Good Luck! I know you'll love it.

[skillman]

If you get as nice a gun as Digger did on your first build, I think I'll start building Chambers kits.

Steve

[Darkhorse]

I'm a lefty and have built a couple of Isacc haines for myself. A .54 and a .40 with a Rice barrel.
I don't think you can go wrong with the Chambers haines kit.
For a big game hunting rifle I prefer a basic single trigger. My trigger pull is 2.5 lbs and there is enough room for a thin gloved finger in the guard. It is actually smoother than a double set (to me) and I can shoot better with a single trigger.
Some Haines stocks are not inlet to accept the double configuration. Sure you can make the trigger bar fit the stock but you must move the trigger guard back to accomadate the rear trigger. This leaves the pre carved mortice for the forward end of the guard in front of the guard itself. In other words a precut hole is left in your stock and this must be dealt with.
I built the .40 for turkey hunting with browned steel hardware and a dark fancy maple stock. A poured chevron nose piece. And simple incised lines front and back and on the cheekpiece.   This gun gets more attention and remarks than the brass ones. People around here are not used to seeing fancy carved rifles.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Mattole, Give Stan Hollenbaugh a call and talk with him about his single set double action trigger for your rifle. Tell him the kit you are going to build and ask his advice. He won't mislead you and I have his trigger in two guns I hunt with and shoot at the range... it is the best of both worlds

Phone 717 259 9271

The S.H. single set trigger can be used
either as a single stage trigger or set.
It is adjustable for both setting pressure &
release pressure when set & no creep. The
lock must have a sear release pressure of
five (5) pounds or less. Warranter against
defective parts or workmanship as long as
not altered.
Comes with installation instructions. I am
told that it's the best one available!
     $65.00 plus shipping & ins.

[Mattole]

I'm a lefty and have built a couple of Isacc haines for myself. A .54 and a .40 with a Rice barrel.
I don't think you can go wrong with the Chambers haines kit.
For a big game hunting rifle I prefer a basic single trigger. My trigger pull is 2.5 lbs and there is enough room for a thin gloved finger in the guard. It is actually smoother than a double set (to me) and I can shoot better with a single trigger.
Some Haines stocks are not inlet to accept the double configuration. Sure you can make the trigger bar fit the stock but you must move the trigger guard back to accomadate the rear trigger. This leaves the pre carved mortice for the forward end of the guard in front of the guard itself. In other words a precut hole is left in your stock and this must be dealt with.
I built the .40 for turkey hunting with browned steel hardware and a dark fancy maple stock. A poured chevron nose piece. And simple incised lines front and back and on the cheekpiece.   This gun gets more attention and remarks than the brass ones. People around here are not used to seeing fancy carved rifles.

Hello Darkhorse - Your post is very instructive and it has me leaning very heavily in the direction of a single trigger. Also, I would be very interested in seeing images of your Haines rifles, if you are willing to share them.. I'm a lefty too, by the way..