shooting Jim Kibler's flintlock

[Flinter]

The first time I shot Jim’s rifle, chill bumps ran up and down my neck, back, and arms when the flint hit the steel. Wow!!! I guess some of you already know the feeling though. If I said the rifle shoots better than it looks then Jim may get the wrong idea, but you guys have to realize I’ve been shooting a T/C Renegade. The front sight seems to have a glow on the rear top tip of the blade. The rifle is just simply unbelievable, keen and well put together!   

The first three rounds went into one hole or about two inches. I was shooting offhand at about 40 yards. The load was about 76 grains or 2f Goex thrown from a measure that Roger Fisher built for me. The cast ball was .535 with a Wonder Ticking 1000 plus Ox-York pre lubed .018 patches.

Now, don't think the rifle shoots low, because that is where I was aiming. For some reason I have always used the 6 o'clock hold.



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Check out my daughter's feet in the photo of the 3rd link below. She is standing on her heals.
Oh man! I cannot help it. I love that picture. Hee... Hee...
 
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This is the Range Master. Although she said not to post the photo, I couldn't help it.
I have to admit: I love that woman.

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Mike

[Ben I. Voss]

Wow: beautiful location, beautiful family, beautiful rifle! Very cool.

[B Staley]

Same as Ben.
My new 54 cal. Will shoot a one hole group also, that is with someone else shooting it. ......B Staley

[Roger Fisher]

Fine shooting offhand I would say!

Tell that child to open her stance a bit, much steadier.

btw I imagine you hear about 'time to rake the leave' daily!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Great thread!  Thanks for posting these pictures.  You've got a lot to be grateful for Flinter...lovely family involved in your life...fabulous place, and last but not least, a wonderful rifle.

[Daryl]

Tks for posting this thread, Mike - all the picture links especially. Great settup you've got. Range officer - I like that.

[jim moore]

Nice looking rifle !

[Flinter]

Thanks Ben and B Stanley.

Roger, you have to realize that was the smaller of the two three shot targets I shot. The one I did not post was about six inches. Although I was using .010 Crisco soaked patches.
Actually, I was worried more about my flintlock falling on the gravel than her stance.
Oh, I like the leaves, because I can hear the Indians sneaking up on me. Ha!

Yea Taylor, I guess I am very fortunate to have a nice wife and two wonderful kids. The home place and rifle are nice additives.

My wife said thank you… thank you… Daryl.

Jim, I need teeth, and a new knee, but you can tell where my heart is. Thanks for the complement.


One thing I noticed shooting the rifle, I am going to have to get another ball starter. I have been using the one pictured since the 70s, but I feel it is time for a change. 



This is the only problem I am having shooting the rifle.

Mike

[heinz]

Excellent pictures.  We will not tell your daughter that those red streaks in the 3rd picture are unburned powder suggesting the size of the load that Dad fixed her up with.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Flinter - you got the world by the "Ba%%s"  - great looking location - nothing better than walking out the door and being able to shoot your rifle without someone complaining. very nice rifle and family!!

[Flinter]

thanks heinz

I noticed that. Now I have a question. I am shooting about 76 grains or 2f Goex, so if I increase this to 85 grains, all I'm doing is blowing unburned or partial burned powder out the barrel, right?

I ordered a REAL ball starter this morning. That should take care of my problem, until I can make another one.

Yea P.W.Berkuta, when I built my house, the first thing I did was build my shop and the 200 yard shooting range.

Mike

[Daryl]

Excellent pictures.  We will not tell your daughter that those red streaks in the 3rd picture are unburned powder suggesting the size of the load that Dad fixed her up with.

Note true - you are seening burning ie: red-hot fouling, not burning powder. The powder was all consumed inside the barrel, long before 1/2 way down the tube. The powder gasses are hot and so is 56% of the charge, which is fouling. Some of it stays in the bore, some of it gets thrown out the muzzle.  The more powder you put in, the more fouling you produce.  considering the .012" patch, some of the powder gasses got past the ball on it's way out, as well.

A .54 will burn all of a 150 gr.2F charge, inside the barrel.  This is fact, not theory.  The black powder charge is entirely consumed quite close to the breech, which is why breeches have to be thicker than anywhere forward of the breech area, as any tapered barrel will show.   

[Flinter]

Daryl, do you think it would be safe to shoot 150 grains of 2f in Jim's rifle? I thought 120 grains would about the max without blowing things up.

One thing I noticed. The first three times I shot the rifle, I filled the pan with about 1/3 grains of 4f. There was a lag in lock time. The rifle was tilted to the lock side to get the priming away from the touch hole. The last time Laura shot the rifle, I filled the pan full, and it seemed to be an instant lock time. Laura even said, “Dad, I thought there was going to be a delay.” Lots to learn.

Mike 

[Larry Pletcher]

. . . . .One thing I noticed. The first three times I shot the rifle, I filled the pan with about 1/3 grains of 4f. There was a lag in lock time. The rifle was tilted to the lock side to get the priming away from the touch hole. The last time Laura shot the rifle, I filled the pan full, and it seemed to be an instant lock time. Laura even said, “Dad, I thought there was going to be a delay.” Lots to learn.
Mike 

Banking the prime away from the vent is a myth.  Check out the following link:

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/pan-vent-experiments.php

You want the prime as close to the vent as you can get it.  It may be 15-25% faster.

Regards,
Pletch

[Flinter]

Larry, thanks for sharing the link with me. I enjoyed everything you said and watching your video. Now, I do not have to go through trial and error, and this will make my flintlock shooting fun.

Mike

[Daryl]

I wasn't suggesting 150gr. be shot in the rifle, just that a .54 will burn it.  If the barrel is a good one, of good steel, 150gr.2F will not harm it - and develope even less pressure with a the .012" patch.  I'd suspect that ball would rattle almost the full length of the barrel -  with the patch incinerated right off the bat by the flame blowby.
 

[Flinter]

Larry, I see in your video where a pan brush was used, so these things are not just for show.

Daryl, that is interesting. A 150 grain charge would burn the patch up, so the load would be extremely inaccurate. I plan on using somewhere between 75 and 90 grains of 2f Goex, and that will be determined by what charge will give me the most accurate load. All of these loads will be fired from a shooting bench using sand bags.

More to come. 


Mike

[Daryl]

Mike- we shoot all day without brushing our pans - no need to do that for normal shooting.  If it's raining, snowing or humid enough to fill the pan with water between shots, a pan brush isn't going to help there either. Use a piece of flannelette or tissue to dry it before priming successives shots.
Even 90gr. is going to burn the patch- probably 60. If the patches aren't reusable, they are being damaged by firing, bouncing pressures all over and accuracy is not as good as it most certainly could be.
 

[Flinter]

Now, this is getting interesting. I am glad you told me that. Jeff Bibb is building me a “Judges Choice” bag set similar to the in the link below.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vb_Yo_ELC48/SneEKvQhOxI/AAAAAAAAP30/02QJh1w30uk/s1600-h/HPIM4134_ret.jpg

I think I may get Jeff to put a snap type removable powder measure with a leather string on the bag strap ring. I will keep the pan brush and vent pick inside the bag.

Ok! What I need to do is examine my patch after I fire the rifle.

Thanks
Mike

[Flinter]

Oh...

I forgot to mention to you guys that Jim's flintlock is my birthday present.


Mike 

[Daryl]

Nice birthday present- WOW!  Can't remember what I got, but then, I'm older than you are - HA!  Bet if I got a beautiful rifle, I'd remember.

[Larry Pletcher]

Larry, I see in your video where a pan brush was used, so these things are not just for show.
. . . .snipped. . . . .

More to come. 
Mike

Mike,
Under normal situations I don't use a brush.  We did in this experiment because we wanted to eliminate ALL fouling.  We also used an air compressor and pipe cleaner.  Every attempt to keep fouling out of the picture.  Normal shooting doesn't require this type of effort. 
In normal shooting, I  wipe the frizzen and underside of the flint with my thumb between shots.  Every 5 shots or so, I might use a pipe cleaner  - depends on the humidity.  I'm not a fanatic except in experimental situations.

Regards,
Pletch 

[Roger Fisher]

Larry, I see in your video where a pan brush was used, so these things are not just for show.
. . . .snipped. . . . .

More to come. 
Mike

Thumb on the frizzen and edge of the flint and if you mind blood (yourown) wipe away from the flint's edge not towards

Mike,
Under normal situations I don't use a brush.  We did in this experiment because we wanted to eliminate ALL fouling.  We also used an air compressor and pipe cleaner.  Every attempt to keep fouling out of the picture.  Normal shooting doesn't require this type of effort. 
In normal shooting, I  wipe the frizzen and underside of the flint with my thumb between shots.  Every 5 shots or so, I might use a pipe cleaner  - depends on the humidity.  I'm not a fanatic except in experimental situations.

Regards,
Pletch 

[Flinter]

Daryl, this was supposed to be a two year project, so I feel extremely lucky in getting this within a few months of contacting Jim.

Larry, I cannot get a pipe cleaner into the touch hole. I have been using a cutting torch tip cleaner for the touch hole. Since this is actually a file, I have been very very careful using this.

Roger, I have been using a soft cloth soaked in paint surface cleaner to wipe the pan, flint, and frizzen. This fluid dries as soon as it is applied. I know the flint edge is razor sharp, so thanks for the warning. You never know how some people think, especially green horns like myself. 


Mike

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Flinter, were I you, and had such a masterpiece of a rifle, I would not let anything chemical other than water get near the rifle.  I wouldn't trust anything other that spit on my thumb, to wipe the frizzen.  That's all you need.