Author Topic: ramrod drill  (Read 8975 times)

Offline Jim Kibler

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ramrod drill
« on: November 05, 2010, 05:59:53 PM »
I'm looking for a 5/16" ramrod drill with a single flute deep hole drill point geometry.  I'm looked through a few of the suppliers catalogs and all they seem to offer is 11/32.  They advertise it as "oversize 5/16".  Appparently the idea behind this is to allow an untapered rod to fit in the hole.  As I said I want 5/16" .  Does anyone know where to buy one.  I could make one, but I'd rather not if I can just purchase it.

Thanks,
Jim

keweenaw

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 07:00:45 PM »
Jim,

These are very easy to make.  I can tell you how to do this or make one for you.

Tom

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 07:24:51 PM »
I think I wouldn't have any trouble making one, but I'd be happy for any suggestions.  The only real trouble I can imagine is holding the rod.  It could be held in my mill vise and the head angled, but I'd rather not go through the trouble to re-tram the head.  I could probably get by holding it in some other less than ideal manner, but just thought I'd avoid the trouble if I could.  If you have some advice I'd like to hear it Tom.

Thanks,
Jim

keweenaw

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 07:57:41 PM »
Jim,

All you need to do in cutting the flute on the mill is to take out a quarter section of the material.  Clamp the rod in the vise with the end you want to cut sticking out the appropriate amount, 3" is more than enough, to one side of the vise and backed by a piece of something stiff, a piece of bar stock or even a piece of hard wood, to cut down the vibrations and cut the section out with a couple of light passes with an end mill. No need to put anything out of square on the mill. If you're really concerned about it vibrating you can clamp the very end to the backer and cut your flute to just short of the clamp then and trim that part off after you flute it. Use some O-1 for the cutting end.  It's just as cheap to make the whole thing out of drill rod as to put an O-1 end on a piece of ground 12L14 but you'll have to join an end onto the longer rod no matter which way you go unless you can find a source for 5/16 x 6' drill rod. I usually make a socket joint and silver solder the pieces together with the whole thing in the lathe to keep it aligned perfectly.   After you grind the cutting end, heat to bright red and quench in oil, no need to draw it back.

Tom

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2010, 01:11:21 AM »
  Out of curiosity, why that style of drill?

 Thanks, Tim C.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 01:59:21 AM »
  Out of curiosity, why that style of drill?

 Thanks, Tim C.

Gun Drill. They use the same design to drill gun barrels for a reason.
Drills much straighter. Drill a 36" blank with very little runout. They will drill right to the center of the tang bolt if drilled that deep.
ONCE STARTED STRAIGHT. They go right where they are pointed. Drills that cut significantly larger than the shaft or have sharpened aggressive flutes will run off with little or no apparent provocation.
Once I tried one I never use anything else and I have used other types brazed to shafts etc.

Dan

He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

coutios

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 04:12:15 AM »
Call the Log Cabin.... They have them on occasion (.312)....

Dave

Offline okieboy

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2010, 07:56:06 AM »
 Snyder, are you pointing the drill by hand? Is it just one continuous relief back from the single edge?  And roughly what point angle?
 For just drilling in wood, making the drill from mild steel rod (easy to obtain in longer lengths), case hardening the point and flute would save joining two pieces of rod, which sounds like the most difficult part of making the drill.
 I have sharpened thousands of two flute twist drills, but have very little experience with gun drills.
Okieboy

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2010, 03:58:56 PM »
  Out of curiosity, why that style of drill?

 Thanks, Tim C.

Gun Drill. They use the same design to drill gun barrels for a reason.
Drills much straighter. Drill a 36" blank with very little runout. They will drill right to the center of the tang bolt if drilled that deep.
ONCE STARTED STRAIGHT. They go right where they are pointed. Drills that cut significantly larger than the shaft or have sharpened aggressive flutes will run off with little or no apparent provocation.
Once I tried one I never use anything else and I have used other types brazed to shafts etc.

Dan



Thanks, Tim C.

Offline David Rase

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2010, 09:22:41 PM »
  Out of curiosity, why that style of drill?

 Thanks, Tim C.

Gun Drill. ONCE STARTED STRAIGHT. They go right where they are pointed. Dan

I have been using gun drills for drilling ramrods for years and have had good success with them.  The statement that once started straight they go right where they are pointed is true if you are drilling hard maple or plain straight grained walnut.  If you get into some highly figured burled English walnut that gun drill once it hits a soft spot heads down that path of least resistence and there is no getting it back.  I have only had four ramrod holes run out on me in over 10 years of drilling and three of the four run outs were on highly figured burled English walnut.
DMR     

Joe B.

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2010, 03:49:45 PM »
I have only drilled four ramrod holes so am by no means an authority.  One 5/16, two 3/8 and one 7/16, all with cold rolled hardware store rod ground to approximate a spade bit tip and have not had a problem, knock on wood.

msw

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 03:58:09 PM »
perhaps i got the one in a zillion 'lemon,' but i bought such a gadget from Track of the Wolf when i built my first from- a- blank rifle.  The blank was Lacewood, and the rifle is quite handsome (i think, but even the ugly guy will tell you his ugly kids are pretty...).
 i pretty much followed exactly the details in Alexander's The Gunsmith of Grenville County and the whole set up looked like it made sense and would drill me a nice straight hole all the way to China... no such luck!

Perhaps i did something wrong, or there was no temper on the bit, or whatever, but after about an inch and a half, the drill drill was so dull it wouldn't even cut pine, and i threw up my hands in disgust and went to a local guy who runs a bodyshop down the street.  He put a drill bit on some angle iron, shimmed a quarter inch rod, and tack welded a jobber bit on the end.   I admit i had some run out, but i was able to fix this without too much trouble and the ramrod goes in as it should.

Out of curiosity, is there any way I can bring the single flute bit back to life?  (I will, of course, build another flintlock- once you start, you don't stop- sorta like a drug addiction but without the expense or criminality).

Thanks!

Offline Hank*in*WV

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2010, 12:21:44 AM »
I had the same issues as msw plus after the bit would heat up and bind in the hole. I didn't think I would be able to get it back out of the hole one time.
"Much of the social history of the western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good. . ." Thomas Sowell

Offline Dphariss

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2010, 08:02:25 AM »
perhaps i got the one in a zillion 'lemon,' but i bought such a gadget from Track of the Wolf when i built my first from- a- blank rifle.  The blank was Lacewood, and the rifle is quite handsome (i think, but even the ugly guy will tell you his ugly kids are pretty...).
 i pretty much followed exactly the details in Alexander's The Gunsmith of Grenville County and the whole set up looked like it made sense and would drill me a nice straight hole all the way to China... no such luck!

Perhaps i did something wrong, or there was no temper on the bit, or whatever, but after about an inch and a half, the drill drill was so dull it wouldn't even cut pine, and i threw up my hands in disgust and went to a local guy who runs a bodyshop down the street.  He put a drill bit on some angle iron, shimmed a quarter inch rod, and tack welded a jobber bit on the end.   I admit i had some run out, but i was able to fix this without too much trouble and the ramrod goes in as it should.

Out of curiosity, is there any way I can bring the single flute bit back to life?  (I will, of course, build another flintlock- once you start, you don't stop- sorta like a drug addiction but without the expense or criminality).

Thanks!

Burr (I use a burnisher) the gun drill edge to cut a .001 or so over the shaft diameter and then Kasenite the front 1/2". I have made them of mild steel with good results.
If the cutting edge cuts exactly to shaft size or worse even a tiny bit less its a PITA. Ivory soap will work as a lube though.

Once in the hole straight the shaft being so close to the hole size its hard to get run out. Since it can't change direction easily and the drill is much stiffer than a twist bit. But they will only drill about 1/2" before needing the chips cleared.
And... Things that work for one here don't for another. Its just how things work out I guess.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline BrentD

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2010, 04:16:12 PM »
I've never tried to drill a ramrod hole, but why wouldn't a brad-point bit do the job well? 

Brent

Offline Long John

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2010, 07:39:27 PM »
I have been using the gun barrel drills for years and they have always worked fine as long as I had the ramrod groove properly prepared.  If, when using the ramrod groove as a guide, you bend the drill because there is a little dip in the ramrod groove then you best ought expect run-out.  Don't ask me how I know this!

I sharpen the gun barrel drills by hand on the bench grinder with a single long bevel.  The drills I got from TOTW needed to be sharpened to cut well in wood.  You can also use bee's wax to lube a drill for a long hole.  Being an old guy I prefer to use a hand brace.  That way I can feel if the resistance is increasing - indicating that the drill might be running off due to wood figure.  It is easy to straighten the hole with a hot iron and just continue on with the hole.

Best Regards,

JMC

Offline Dale Campbell

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2010, 07:47:38 PM »
It is easy to straighten the hole with a hot iron and just continue on with the hole.

Best Regards,

JMC

Please expand.  That's a new one on me.
Best regards,
Dale

keweenaw

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2010, 08:14:12 PM »
The reason I use drill rod or ground 12L14 rather than cold rolled rod is the drill rod is straight while the cold rolled isn't, the cost differential is only a couple of bucks and once the tip is hardened you can drill lots of holes without resharpening.  But each to his own.

Brad point bits drill nice holes but the longest ones you can get are about 15" and those are pretty flexible and you have to silver solder them onto the longer shaft absolutely straight which is no mean feat.  Grinding a spade type bit on the end of the rod is also possible but it must be absolutely centered to drill a straight and not oversized hole.  Some of the crookedest holes I've ever drilled in anything have been with commercial spade bits on end grain.

Tom

Offline Long John

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2010, 09:14:32 PM »
It is easy to straighten the hole with a hot iron and just continue on with the hole.

Best Regards,

JMC

Please expand.  That's a new one on me.

If the drill starts to bind, indicating that it is veering off, you can straighten things out with a hot iron.  Take a piece of drill rod or other straight steel stock of suitable length and grind a very steep taper pyramid tip on it - for a 3/8ths inch rod a tip of 2.5 inches from tip to where it is full diameter.  I prefer to use a 4-sided pyramid because it seems easier to keep it symetrical.  Once that is done heat the tip and only the very tip up red-hot.  Quickly slide the rod, hot tip first into the hole.  The hot tip will burn away the wood that is causing the veer.  It helps to rotate the rod as this scrapes away the char.  The hole insert, twist and with draw operation takes 4 to 5 seconds.  This re-centers your hole and your conventional boring bit will now follow the re-centered hole.

I know it sounds crazy, but it works.  It is a handy way to fix a hole that starts veering off.  It has salvaged a couple of builds in highly figured (expensive) wood for me over the past few years.  You can over-do it so be quick.

Best Regards,

JMC

JMC

Offline Dale Campbell

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Re: ramrod drill
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2010, 09:57:22 PM »
OK.  That does ring a bell.  But the way you worded it I was picturing plugging in the old Sunbeam and rubbing it over the forearm.   :o  My problem, not yours.
Best regards,
Dale